Author Topic: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm  (Read 129230 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Roch

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17586
Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #630 on: July 26, 2017, 10:33:AM »
You appear to be saying that if a person makes ONE mistake, it's a given that another will follow and you use other cases as examples of errors. I tire of other cases being thrown into this arena. THIS is about Jeremy Bamber. It seems perfectly reasonable to me, that if an error had occurred in a previous case, the person responsible would take care to ascertain that another didn't occur.

As for the Bridgewater case - they didn't get out until 1997 - so it's hardly likely that Drake would be cautious and conscientious about fabricated evidence in 1985.

Regarding Vaneziz - the 'mistake' he made was after the Bamber case.   
« Last Edit: July 26, 2017, 11:10:AM by Roch »

Offline Jane

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 33781
Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #631 on: July 26, 2017, 10:35:AM »
You're entitled to your opinion but I don't know why you are so eager to defend the reputations of the 80's Essex Police officers and Vanezis?    I have consistently posted on this forum that any peddled version of events that conceals the truth, is effectively an insult to the victims. My reasoning for this is that the victims experienced the truth of the situation first hand.  The least we can do is to preserve that truth - not distort it by 'bending' the evidence to suit a JB conviction.  If you have to bend the evidence in order to get somebody behind bars - how is that preserving the truth of what happened?

You're entitled to your opinion but I don't know why you're so eager to destroy the reputations of the 80's Essex Police and Vanezis? You have consistently posted on this forum peddled versions of events which blur the truth and effectively insult the victims who experienced the truth of the situation at first hand. The least that can be done for them is to preserve that truth, NOT distort it by 'bending' the evidence to suit JB's innocence. If you have to bend the evidence in order to get someone released, how is that preserving the truth of what happened?

Offline Roch

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17586
Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #632 on: July 26, 2017, 10:44:AM »
You're entitled to your opinion but I don't know why you're so eager to destroy the reputations of the 80's Essex Police and Vanezis? You have consistently posted on this forum peddled versions of events which blur the truth and effectively insult the victims who experienced the truth of the situation at first hand. The least that can be done for them is to preserve that truth, NOT distort it by 'bending' the evidence to suit JB's innocence. If you have to bend the evidence in order to get someone released, how is that preserving the truth of what happened?

You're just posting the reverse of what I posted without actually dealing with the issues in question.

Offline Adam

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 44410
Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #633 on: July 26, 2017, 10:55:AM »
As for the Bridgewater case - they didn't get out until 1997 - so it's hardly like that Drake would be cautious and conscientious about fabricated evidence in 1985.

Regarding Vaneziz - the 'mistake' he made was after the Bamber case.   

The judge 's summing up was the basis of Bamber's first appeal. It was dismissed.

Roch believes everyone associated with the Bamber case should have had perfect records both pre & post 1985.

As these people are highly qualified & respected, they will constantly be in demand in high profile cases. There views will always be challenged by opponents. .
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Jane

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 33781
Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #634 on: July 26, 2017, 10:56:AM »
You're just posting the reverse of what I posted without actually dealing with the issues in question.

On the contrary. I could have written it without your input.

Offline Roch

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17586
Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #635 on: July 26, 2017, 11:03:AM »
On the contrary. I could have written it without your input.

Touche..

guest7363

  • Guest
Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #636 on: July 26, 2017, 12:05:PM »
As for the Bridgewater case - they didn't get out until 1997 - so it's hardly likely that Drake would be cautious and conscientious about fabricated evidence in 1985.

Regarding Vaneziz - the 'mistake' he made was after the Bamber case.   
How did Vanezis make a mistake in the Bridgewater four?

Offline Jane

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 33781
Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #637 on: July 26, 2017, 12:09:PM »
Touche..

Which means, EITHER we cancel out each other's arguments or both are equally valid, don't you think?

Offline Adam

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 44410
Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #638 on: July 26, 2017, 12:21:PM »
It needs to be decided whether Vanezis made a mistake or was part of the industrial frame.

I don't see how he could have inspected the whole body and not noticed any cuts. So a mistake is ruled out.

However if he was part of the industrial frame why didn't the police hide Vanezis's original notes ? Roch said Ainsley was brought in to hide such evidence.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

guest7363

  • Guest
Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #639 on: July 26, 2017, 12:28:PM »
It needs to be decided whether Vanezis made a mistake or was part of the industrial frame.

I don't see how he could have inspected the whole body and not noticed any cuts. So a mistake is ruled out.

However if he was part of the industrial frame why didn't the police hide Vanezis's original notes ? Roch said Ainsley was brought in to hide such evidence.
Mike says Vanezis's original notes got stolen over the weekend after writing them up, the notes available must be a second write up?

Offline Roch

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17586
Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #640 on: July 26, 2017, 12:38:PM »
How did Vanezis make a mistake in the Bridgewater four?

He didn't.  It was Drake who sent them down - after the police had fabricated some of the evidence.  Do you think that Drake came recommended to EP (for the Bamber case)?

guest2181

  • Guest
Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #641 on: July 26, 2017, 12:38:PM »
Maggie, his posts are actually quite offensive.  They are also insulting to the memory of Daniel, Nicholas, June, Nevill and Sheila. 

What is being claimed is that I am attempting to mislead and pull wool over people's eyes regarding wounds upon the back of Sheila's right hand; an angled cut on the left side of her right index finger which matches the shape of an engineered rifle part; and wounds upon her right arm.

I personally feel you should be commended for being forthright and honest in your acknowledgement of the wounds on the open forum.

The wounds in question were passed off as 'smearing'.  I have repeatedly asked how a gunshot neck wound pouring with blood would cause such 'smearing'.  I think we both know that blood doesn't behave in a manner that would cause the marks in question.  It doesn't of itself break the skin either.

Hmmmm.  ::)

There is a long list of previous attempts to mislead people in to believing that JB is innocent, the majority of which have been carried out intentionally with that agenda in mind. The perpetrators of such actions vary from the the Campaign Team, previous Legal Representatives, the founder of this forum and numerous members of this and other forums.

There are of course some assertions which are put forward with genuine belief, which may or may not be found wanting.

That is the simple historic truth of the matter.

Maggie seemed to be a little spiky when I mentioned that she had made three attempts at replying to a post, she had replied twice before and then deleted them before rewording a third reply. Nothing else was meant by it.

With regards to the blood staining on Sheila's hands, it is simply the case that a member of this forum has given an opinion that they are actually injuries, this is based on nothing more than a visual inspection of poor quality manipulated photographs.
There is no other evidence suggesting that the marks are injuries, in fact the opposite is true, given the pathologist's reports and photographs previously available since trial. The blood stains were SPECIFICALLY mentioned in court and discussed. There are no other accounts from any other witness that Sheila's hand were injured. Whilst there is the old adage that the absence of evidence is not an indication of evidence of absence, it is hardly a compelling argument in this instance.

People may choose to accept the claims, or not, it doesn't really matter, however if we are being even handed in portraying forum members behaviour, then Maggie certainly does appear blind to Roch's antics.

Offline Roch

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17586
Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #642 on: July 26, 2017, 12:42:PM »
Maggie certainly does appear blind to Roch's antics.

I'm sure Maggie will be grateful for your concern, regarding her vulnerability, in light my 'antics'.

guest7363

  • Guest
Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #643 on: July 26, 2017, 12:47:PM »
He didn't.  It was Drake who sent them down - after the police had fabricated some of the evidence.  Do you think that Drake came recommended to EP (for the Bamber case)?
Oh so you use this as an excuse to try to say Vanezis was involved?  Ok what is the role of a Judge in the trial?  He presides over the case,

During the trial

Once the trial has commenced the judge ensures that all parties involved are given the opportunity for their case to be presented and considered as fully and fairly as possible. The judge plays an active role during the trial, controlling the way the case is conducted in accordance with relevant law and practice. As the case progresses the judge makes notes of the evidence and decides on legal issues, for example, whether evidence is admissible.

Once all evidence in the case has been heard the judge’s summing up takes place. The judge sets out for the jury the law on each of the charges made and what the prosecution must prove to make the jury sure of the case. At this stage the judge refers to notes made during the course of the trial and reminds the jury of the key points of the case, highlighting the strengths and weaknesses of each side’s argument. The judge then gives directions about the duties of the jury before they retire to the jury deliberation room to consider the verdict.

They got off on a false confession, hardly the Judges fault or Vanezis's fault?

guest2181

  • Guest
Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #644 on: July 26, 2017, 12:47:PM »
I'm sure Maggie will be grateful for your concern, regarding her vulnerability, in light my 'antics'.

She has no need to be grateful, her vulnerableness or otherwise is not being discussed.
A number of members have observed that her frustrations appear unevenly distributed.