Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm

[guest7363]

I haven't takemailed offence Justice.

I know you haven't Maggie, it's hard to get a point across sometimes without involving unintentionally everyone. 

[David1819]

It's a smudge.

They are not smear or swipe marks. Too well defined. What is highlighted under Sheila's arm is what you call a 'smudge'.

[guest7363]

Hi Justice I can understand where you are coming from with the grainy pictures as they are grainy on my laptop too but Maggie sees them very clearly and NGB posted he could see them and he is not sitting on any fence he is impartial so in view of that I believe they exist. When I posted about the two reports I was not implying the man is corrupt I could never make a statement like that as I have not read either of them but obviously I do accept the statements were different which did not seem right to me.  I know you have not implied I said the guy was corrupt I just wanted to clarify my position and I am sure you will understand that.

Susan I know you never said he was corrupt, it's the term defence seem to use often, we discuss topics and then the bottom line is they have either lied or corrupt.  I take on board everything NGB says and he knows I respect him tremendously, but he would not want me to say I can see cuts/grazes if I cannot see them and being the person he is and the work he does, I'm sure he admires me for debating the evidence I believe in and not just taking anyone's word that they are cuts for the sake of it.  To be truthful I've really enjoyed this topic on the forum and if anything it has made me more convinced that Sheila did not take her own life.

[Adam]

They are not smear or swipe marks. Too well defined. What is highlighted under Sheila's arm is what you call a 'smudge'.

After 32 years forum supporters are claiming blood smudges are injuries. Someone better tell Bamber or the OS as they have missed them.

Obviously these injuries are from Sheila fighting with Nevill. As you're own diagrams have June getting shot 5 times in bed. Although you've previously supported there being no kitchen fight.

[susan]

Susan I know you never said he was corrupt, it's the term defence seem to use often, we discuss topics and then the bottom line is they have either lied or corrupt.  I take on board everything NGB says and he knows I respect him tremendously, but he would not want me to say I can see cuts/grazes if I cannot see them and being the person he is and the work he does, I'm sure he admires me for debating the evidence I believe in and not just taking anyone's word that they are cuts for the sake of it.  To be truthful I've really enjoyed this topic on the forum and if anything it has made me more convinced that Sheila did not take her own life.

Justice as I said it is not possible for you to say you can see the cuts and grazes when you can't and this is why I have said the picture is very grainy and I would not have seen them if not pointed out to me.  It is strange but I remember lookout saying years ago about the blood mark on Sheila's thumb but the discussion just went onto blood marks on Sheila's palm and the nightdress this was in 2013 I seem to think you were posting as Ralph at that time you joined in the discussion with Patti and Maggie but think it was because the info then came from Scot Lomax's book and he lives near you.  I have always been confused about this case but lately I am thinking Sheila did commit the murders then kill herself but it makes for great debate and my mind is open to any points made that may make me think the opposite.  NGB will respect you for expressing your views as this is what the forum needs.  Whoops I am going on too much Thank you for your understanding I really appreciate it.

[Jane]

Susan I know you never said he was corrupt, it's the term defence seem to use often, we discuss topics and then the bottom line is they have either lied or corrupt.  I take on board everything NGB says and he knows I respect him tremendously, but he would not want me to say I can see cuts/grazes if I cannot see them and being the person he is and the work he does, I'm sure he admires me for debating the evidence I believe in and not just taking anyone's word that they are cuts for the sake of it.  To be truthful I've really enjoyed this topic on the forum and if anything it has made me more convinced that Sheila did not take her own life.

Justice, we've been told -NAY! We've had it sworn to us!!!- that black is white on too many occasions to fall for that old chestnut again.....................besides which,there's only ever one black and one white. Everything else is grey area.

[guest7363]

Justice as I said it is not possible for you to say you can see the cuts and grazes when you can't and this is why I have said the picture is very grainy and I would not have seen them if not pointed out to me.  It is strange but I remember lookout saying years ago about the blood mark on Sheila's thumb but the discussion just went onto blood marks on Sheila's palm and the nightdress this was in 2013 I seem to think you were posting as Ralph at that time you joined in the discussion with Patti and Maggie but think it was because the info then came from Scot Lomax's book and he lives near you.  I have always been confused about this case but lately I am thinking Sheila did commit the murders then kill herself but it makes for great debate and my mind is open to any points made that may make me think the opposite.  NGB will respect you for expressing your views as this is what the forum needs.  Whoops I am going on too much Thank you for your understanding I really appreciate it.

Scott Lomax lives about 2 miles from me and Patti about 6 miles Susan, he works for Notts council archaeologists adviser.  Must admit I used to take everyone's word as gospel, but there is two sides to every story and if anything I'm enjoying reading more for myself and not taking things for granted. Take that prof knight that the defence brought  in to counter Vanezis, he writes a book about Women almost never commit suicide by shooting, yet they bring him in to defend a woman who supposedly shoots herself twice?

[Jane]

Scott Lomax lives about 2 miles from me Susan, he works for Notts council archaeologists adviser.  Must admit I used to take everyone's word as gospel, but there is two sides to every story and if anything I'm enjoying reading more for myself and not taking things for granted. Take that prof knight that the defence brought  in to counter Vanezis, he writes a book about Women almost never commit suicide by shooting, yet they bring him in to defend a woman who supposedly shoots herself twice?

Yeah! Clearly Prof Knight has got to grips with statistics!!! The reason "women almost never commit suicide by shooting" is because there are fewer women who have access to guns (as opposed to the number of women who have access to other means of committing suicide) but in order to make his case good he omits this part of the equation.

[susan]

Scott Lomax lives about 2 miles from me and Patti about 6 miles Susan, he works for Notts council archaeologists adviser.  Must admit I used to take everyone's word as gospel, but there is two sides to every story and if anything I'm enjoying reading more for myself and not taking things for granted. Take that prof knight that the defence brought  in to counter Vanezis, he writes a book about Women almost never commit suicide by shooting, yet they bring him in to defend a woman who supposedly shoots herself twice?

Justice you said you had never met him and he lived so near.  I never read his book Maggie had read it and the blood on the palm originally came from the book but as you rightly say one should make up their own mind and not take everything from books as being gospel.  Hahaha think the Defence team got lots wrong

[David1819]

Scott Lomax lives about 2 miles from me and Patti about 6 miles Susan, he works for Notts council archaeologists adviser.  Must admit I used to take everyone's word as gospel, but there is two sides to every story and if anything I'm enjoying reading more for myself and not taking things for granted. Take that prof knight that the defence brought  in to counter Vanezis, he writes a book about Women almost never commit suicide by shooting, yet they bring him in to defend a woman who supposedly shoots herself twice?

"a shot woman is a murdered woman until proven otherwise" - Bernard Knight

Gets hired by Jeremy's defence team.

[Adam]

91. Professor Knight, another defence witness, lent support to Dr Bradley's evidence as to the feature of excessive violence in parental killings. He also spoke of instances where the murderer (having killed their spouses in most cases) has then gone about some mundane or "ritualistic" task, such as cleaning up before committing suicide. In cross-examination he accepted the proposition contained in an article, which he himself had written some years earlier, that "women almost never commit suicide by shooting".

                                        -----------------

So Sheila may have committed the massacre naked or in underwear. As suggested by Lookout.

Then had a shower & changed into the exact same nightie you would expect her to have gone to bed in.

Not sure where Sheila read about pre suicide ritualistic cleansing. Certainly not in June's bible which was next to her.

[Adam]

Actually Knight says about pre suicide 'cleaning up'. The kitchen certainly wasn't in a tidy state.

[guest7363]

"a shot woman is a murdered woman until proven otherwise" - Bernard Knight

Gets hired by Jeremy's defence team.

Im not saying he's bad at his job, he's probably a top bloke, but he was the wrong choice having wrote that book and he didn't have a lot to go on.

[guest2181]

They are not smear or swipe marks. Too well defined. What is highlighted under Sheila's arm is what you call a 'smudge'.

Who wrote 911 on her arm in gouges - backwards? 

[guest7363]

Who wrote 911 on her arm in gouges - backwards? 

Could that be Bamber totting up the number of shots he's fired?