Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm

[Roch]

I thought Bill had photo's that show 28 scratches and these were being looked at?  This one he put up was just one of them and he had evidence of scratches elsewhere?

Justice, my post was aimed at Jane's sneering that it's a tad too late to cry misdirection at trial (regarding wounds) 32 years after the event.  The negatives weren't released to defence until about 2011/2012.  They had a tremendous fight to get hold of the negatives - law students demonstrating outside of the CCRC etc.

Instead of sneering -  why doesn't she recognise that in the interests of truth regarding what actually took place that terrifying night - crystal clear images of the smears / wounds should have been made available at trial!  Then we all mightn't be here and could be spending our time more positively elsewhere!
 

[mike tesko]

Thanks for your response Mike.  We are trying to ascertain the likely quality of images used at trial, for Sheila's right hand and right arm.

Well, I still have the original black and white images that Jeremy was provided with during his trial! A couple of them have been duplicated and posted on the forum already! I have a folder somewhere with about a dozen or more such images and the quality is very poor!

[Adam]

I don't see why the experts would lie about gouges on Sheila.

It would be expected that she would have injuries after fighting a man 8 stone heavier & 9 inches taller than her.

Bit strange that all the injuries the experts never mentioned would have to be under her undamaged nightie.

[guest7363]

Some of the images used during the trial were extracted from the video footage that was taken by the first SOCO team (DC Oakey, and DC Henderson), after senior officers had completed their 'informatives', staging the scene! These images were grainy! But, once the second team of SOCO took control of the crime scene after 10am, onwards, PC Birds photographs were much clearer! The problem is though, that not all 581 photographs taken at the scene were used in court, only about 50 were! These were presented under the general heading, ' Court Album', and separated by coloured pieces of card! The reason why some of the images I have previously posted up on this forum are grainy, is because I took photographs of the actual photographs when we went down to the offices of 'GDS', in London by invitation! You can see the flash in some of the photographs I took of photographs! In any event, the defence team were only allowed to view 223 photographs (Master Copy Album) at the police station, the other 358 were kept from them! Considering that the official court album only contained 50 photographs, it means that the court never got to see the other 531 photographs, which is astonishing! At least two of these missing photographs I have seen, with Sheila on top of the bed, minus the gun, only shot once! Imagine the impact those two photographs would have had on the outcome of Bambers trial!

In the same token we are only seeing the images what you and Bamber want us to see, who knows what he holds back and who knows what he has got.  I would imagine a lot of photo's what Bird took of the bodies are not pleasant and rather disturbing esp the 100s of shots he would have taken in the morgue while the autopsy's were performed, I would imagine pii covers this sort of imagery, in the wrong hands could be quite daunting.  I mean could you imagine these photos in the hands of GDS and then he lets you take photo's of them, not very professional and you can understand the need for police to use pii.

[mike tesko]

Although the images are extremely grainy, you can see what appear to be a multitude of blood drops on the bedroom carpet in the region of Sheila's feet and leg, and what springs to my mind is how could Sheila's feet be free from blood? Did she fly into that position on the bedroom floor? Was she levitated there? Well, the actual truth is that police lifted her body from the bed into this position during 'informatives'..

[Jane]

Although the images are extremely grainy, you can see what appear to be a multitude of blood drops on the bedroom carpet in the region of Sheila's feet and leg, and what springs to my mind is how could Sheila's feet be free from blood? Did she fly into that position on the bedroom floor? Was she levitated there? Well, the actual truth is that police lifted her body from the bed into this position during 'informatives'..

So where is the pool of blood -emanating from under her arm- which would have soaked into the bedding?

[mike tesko]

In the same token we are only seeing the images what you and Bamber want us to see, who knows what he holds back and who knows what he has got.  I would imagine a lot of photo's what Bird took of the bodies are not pleasant and rather disturbing esp the 100s of shots he would have taken in the morgue while the autopsy's were performed, I would imagine pii covers this sort of imagery, in the wrong hands could be quite daunting.  I mean could you imagine these photos in the hands of GDS and then he lets you take photo's of them, not very professional and you can understand the need for police to use pii.

For your information I have seen all the autopsy photographs, and no I didn't photograph them Another thing which needs clearing up, GDS did not let me photograph the photographs! He was either in Iraq or Rome when we were invited to look through the photographic evidence at his London office! His Son Michael was supervising us! I only took photographs of photographs which I thought showed that Sheila's body had been moved or disturbed! I was acting as Jeremy's McKensie man at the time, and was up front with him, with Ewen Smith, and with GDS! So, don't blame GDS for allowing me to take photographs of photographs, I only wished now that I could have taken many more!

[Roch]

Well, I still have the original black and white images that Jeremy was provided with during his trial! A couple of them have been duplicated and posted on the forum already! I have a folder somewhere with about a dozen or more such images and the quality is very poor!

Mike, do you know whether it is possible to find out exactly which photos were shown to the jury and whether they were colour or black and white?

[mike tesko]

So where is the pool of blood -emanating from under her arm- which would have soaked into the bedding?

When Sheila's body was laid on top of the bed, she did not have the pooled blood in the region of her right arm/armpit, she had only been shot once by that stage! The blood you see in this grainy image in the region of her right arm/armpit came once police moved her body to the floor and brought the rifle to her body from the box room window, during informative! The blood you see on that part of her body is from the second shot beneath the chin which effectively killed her immediately!

Very little blood flowed from the first wound which ran vertically down her neck because she was stood up downstairs in the kitchen when she got shot as per the officers report bearing the reference 1612 refers...

[guest7363]

For your information I have seen all the autopsy photographs, and no I didn't photograph them Another thing which needs clearing up, GDS did not let me photograph the photographs! He was either in Iraq or Rome when we were invited to look through the photographic evidence at his London office! His Son Michael was supervising us! I only took photographs of photographs which I thought showed that Sheila's body had been moved or disturbed! I was acting as Jeremy's McKensie man at the time, and was up front with him, with Ewen Smith, and with GDS! So, don't blame GDS for allowing me to take photographs of photographs, I only wished now that I could have taken many more!

Of course he's to blame, they are in his possession and you got invited down to his office and was shown the photos and allowed to take pictures, that's why the need for pii when unprofessionals can handle such sensitive information.

[Jane]

For your information I have seen all the autopsy photographs, and no I didn't photograph them Another thing which needs clearing up, GDS did not let me photograph the photographs! He was either in Iraq or Rome when we were invited to look through the photographic evidence at his London office! His Son Michael was supervising us! I only took photographs of photographs which I thought showed that Sheila's body had been moved or disturbed! I was acting as Jeremy's McKensie man at the time, and was up front with him, with Ewen Smith, and with GDS! So, don't blame GDS for allowing me to take photographs of photographs, I only wished now that I could have taken many more!

 I'm wondering why, at that point, you thought she'd been moved? Are you saying that because you wanted it to be believed "that Sheila's body had been moved or disturbed!" you only took "photographs of photographs" which you thought showed such?

[mike tesko]

Another thing worthy of note or consideration, is the fact that prior to these grainy images being taken, cops had rolled Sheila's body into the recovery position on its right side! Therefore, where was the rifle at this time? How did the rifle end up back on top of Sheila's body, once cops rolled her o to her back again?

[Roch]

Of course he's to blame, they are in his possession and you got invited down to his office and was shown the photos and allowed to take pictures, that's why the need for pii when unprofessionals can handle such sensitive information.

It's hardly professional to frame a man for five murders and then conceal the truth. 

[Jane]

When Sheila's body was laid on top of the bed, she did not have the pooled blood in the region of her right arm/armpit, she had only been shot once by that stage! The blood you see in this grainy image in the region of her right arm/armpit came once police moved her body to the floor and brought the rifle to her body from the box room window, during informative! The blood you see on that part of her body is from the second shot beneath the chin which effectively killed her immediately!

Very little blood flowed from the first wound which ran vertically down her neck because she was stood up downstairs in the kitchen when she got shot as per the officers report bearing the reference 1612 refers...

My mistake. I believed you to have said the gun went off when they moved it from her  -still alive-  person whilst it was on the bed.

[mike tesko]

I'm wondering why, at that point, you thought she'd been moved? Are you saying that because you wanted it to be believed "that Sheila's body had been moved or disturbed!" you only took "photographs of photographs" which you thought showed such?

By that stage I was already aware that Sheila had been photographed on the bed, and I had had words with Jeremy over that photograph I sent him of it! He was hopping mad, but once that got sorted, and Jeremy sacked Ewen Smith and hired GDS, I was invited with another trusted friend to go down to London to see if there were any more photographs of Sheila on the bed! We only had an hour to view the photographic albums, and the photographs I photographed were of interest to me and Jeremy and to GDS because of the fact that Sheila was photographed by the first SOCO team (Oakey and Henderson) on top of the bed, and these photographs showed her body on the bedroom floor, shot an additional time! Twice in total! That's why I took photographs of those photographs! Jeremy had already warned me that Stan Jones and Mick Clark had told Ann Eaton that Sheila's and Junes bodies were laid on top of the bed when they visited the main bedroom, with the gun in-between them both on the bed, and a bible on Sheila's chest!