Author Topic: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm  (Read 129115 times)

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Offline Roch

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Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #345 on: July 24, 2017, 08:32:AM »
I can understand your frustration, but at the end of the day all we have to go on is the evidence available to us, for Jeremy to win an appeal based on this evidence, he would have to prove it wasn't available to defence and people have lied in their evidence and covered up the fact that the blood smearing was infact scratches.  Going over court transcripts testimonies and photo's available is what the CCRC would do anyway, forget the part what I can see, it doesn't matter what I can see, it's what people that matters can see.

In other words - EP can stretch the truth by claiming that images were made available at trial, which were of sufficient clarity to allow the defence to see the wounds and challenge accordingly.  The CCRC will take their word (as they always do in this case) and reject any submissions regarding this topic.  This amounts to keeping him in prison 'on a technicality'.

They can keep him in on a technicality - but what they will not be able to do is stop people at large from learning that:

Sheila Caffell had fight injuries

Nevill Bamber had fight injuries

June Bamber had fight injuries

Jeremy Bamber had no injuries whatsoever.

JB can die in prison.. but people will draw their own conclusions.  This is not a case that paints the authorities in a good light.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2017, 08:33:AM by Roch »

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #346 on: July 24, 2017, 08:43:AM »
This analysis of the blood on the nightdress worn by Sheila on the night of the shootings contradicts the suggestion that the blood from the silencer was unique to her, unless someone deliberately contaminated it with her blood!  This is because of the blood types found to be present on her nightdress supports the fact that she did shoot the other four victims! Blood from the victims that she shot spattered back, spurted, or dripped on her nightdress where it was discovered on the 6th September 1985! With this in mind, and Sheila being the shooter of the other four victims, how then could she have shot herself with that silencer fitted to the end of the family owned anshuzt rifle, and permit her blood to be forced back into the end of the silencer, killing herself and then unscrewing the silencer and managing to take it all the way downstairs to conceal it in the gun cupboard in the den, and then go back upstairs and lay down dead again on the bedroom floor with the silencerless rifle in her possession? She couldn't and she didn't! Sheila Caffell did not shoot herself! Jeremy Bamber did not shoot her! The police did!

Coming back to the silencer, who supposedly found it and when the key blood group evidence came to light!

DS 'Stan' Jones returned to the farmhouse during the late morning of 7 August 1985, from Jeremy's cottage where both he and DC 'Mick' Clark had been taking Jeremy's first witness statement! Jones took possession of a silencer on that occasion, which was initially labelled 'SBJ/1'! He eventually handed this silencer to DCI 'Taff' Jones who retained it on top of his desk at Witham police station until evening of 9th August 1985, at which stage Jones and Jones took the silencer in question back to the farmhouse and left it in the gun cupboard! What cops didn't appreciate however, was that there existed two identical looking Parker hale silencers at the farmhouse, one belonging to Anthony Pargeters Bruno bolt action rifle, and a second one belonging to Neville Bambers Anshuzt semi automatic rifle! The only difference between both was the internal design including one of the two silencers having 17 baffles, a flat washer, and screw thread Knut! The other had fewer baffles! The former belonged to Anthony Pargeter, the latter one to Neville Bamber! The first had been purchased by Anthony Pargeter in 1980, and the second purchased by Neville Bamber in late November 1984!

On 10 August 1985, the relatives recovered one of the two silencers!

This was subsequently collected by DS 'Stan' Jones from 'Peter' Eaton on the evening of 12 August 1985! On the following morning, Jones gave the silencer to DI 'Ron' Cook, after being advised to do so by PI 'Bob' Miller! Cook took possession of the said silencer, and noticing that it did not have an exhibit label, he duly attached one, and gave it the exhibit reference of 'SJ/1'! Cook explained to the COLP investigators years later, that the reason he originally gave it the exhibit reference of 'SJ/1' was because he didn't know that 'Stan' Jones had a middle name, and although Jones offered him no explanation regarding where the silencer was from, Cook remembered that on the first morning of the police investigation that DS Jones had returned to the farmhouse (before midday) after the second SOCO team had taken control of the scene (at around 10 am) and he had taken possession of a silencer! Cook therefore thought it was that silencer, and that 'Stan' Jones was the finder!

On 11th September 1985, relatives found the second silencer at the farmhouse, (this would later be referred to as a 'Sound Moderator' to distinguish it from the other identical silencer) concealed in the same gun cupboard as the other one! This was duly handed over to DC Oakey by Ann Eaton on that same date! It was provisionally given the exhibit reference of 'AE/1', was subsequently altered to 'CAE/1', and was eventually referred to as exhibit 'DRB/1'...
« Last Edit: July 24, 2017, 08:53:AM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Jane

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Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #347 on: July 24, 2017, 08:44:AM »
I can understand your frustration, but at the end of the day all we have to go on is the evidence available to us, for Jeremy to win an appeal based on this evidence, he would have to prove it wasn't available to defence and people have lied in their evidence and covered up the fact that the blood smearing was infact scratches.  Going over court transcripts testimonies and photo's available is what the CCRC would do anyway, forget the part what I can see, it doesn't matter what I can see, it's what people that matters can see.

AHH! The voice of sweet reason. It matters, not a JOT, what we, here, on this forum see -or believe we can see. We witter on about a phone call from Nevill to the police, -always bearing in mind that as negatives can't be proved, the police can't prove they DIDN'T receive a call from him- and about how it "wuz the fuzz wot dun it" to Sheila, and more recently -and reminiscent of the visions of Our Lady at Lourdes- Sheila is said to bear wounds only visible to believers, and which remain concealed to others. As Justice SO sensibly and reasonably says "..................forget the part what I can see, it doesn't matter what I can see, it's what people that matters can see".

Offline Adam

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Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #348 on: July 24, 2017, 08:47:AM »
45. Dr Vanezis gave evidence that there was no evidence of any other mark or injury to Sheila Caffell's body such as might be suffered during a fight or in a scuffle.

'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #349 on: July 24, 2017, 08:50:AM »
On 10 August 1985, the relatives recovered one of the two silencers!

This was subsequently collected by DS 'Stan' Jones from 'Peter' Eaton on the evening of 12 August 1985! On the following morning, Jones gave the silencer to DI 'Ron' Cook, after being advised to do so by PI 'Bob' Miller! Cook took possession of the said silencer, and noticing that it did not have an exhibit label, he duly attached one, and gave it the exhibit reference of 'SJ/1'! Cook explained to the COLP investigators years later, that the reason he originally gave it the exhibit reference of 'SJ/1' was because he didn't know that 'Stan' Jones had a middle name, and although Jones offered him no explanation regarding where the silencer was from, Cook remembered that on the first morning of the police investigation that DS Jones had returned to the farmhouse (before midday) after the second SOCO team had taken control of the scene (at around 10 am) and he had taken possession of a silencer! Cook therefore thought it was that silencer, and that 'Stan' Jones was the finder!

On 11th September 1985, relatives found the second silencer at the farmhouse, (this would later be referred to as a 'Sound Moderator' to distinguish it from the other identical silencer) concealed in the same gun cupboard as the other one! This was duly handed over to DC Oakey by Ann Eaton on that same date! It was provisionally given the exhibit reference of 'AE/1', was subsequently altered to 'CAE/1', and was eventually referred to as exhibit 'DRB/1'.

On 14 September 1985, DS Davidson (SOCO) and DS Eastwood (SOCO) were tasked with fingerprinting the 'Sound Moderator' ('AE/1', 'CAE/1', 'DRB/1')..
« Last Edit: July 24, 2017, 08:55:AM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Adam

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Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #350 on: July 24, 2017, 08:52:AM »
147. The precise sequence of the killings was unclear. June Bamber was shot whilst still lying in bed but had managed to get up and walk a few steps before she collapsed and died by the main bedroom door.

Nevill Bamber was also shot in the bedroom but was able to get downstairs into the kitchen where there was a violent struggle before he was overwhelmed and then shot a number of times in the head.

The children had been shot in their beds as they slept.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2017, 08:58:AM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

guest7363

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Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #351 on: July 24, 2017, 08:53:AM »
In other words - EP can stretch the truth by claiming that images were made available at trial, which were of sufficient clarity to allow the defence to see the wounds and challenge accordingly.  The CCRC will take their word (as they always do in this case) and reject any submissions regarding this topic.  This amounts to keeping him in prison 'on a technicality'.

They can keep him in on a technicality - but what they will not be able to do is stop people at large from learning that:

Sheila Caffell had fight injuries

Nevill Bamber had fight injuries

June Bamber had fight injuries

Jeremy Bamber had no injuries whatsoever.

JB can die in prison.. but people will draw their own conclusions.  This is not a case that paints the authorities in a good light.
Im sure, if the images you or Bill have and they wasn't available at trial, will have to be looked at and if without a shadow of doubt show scratches, this then could form a basis and would cause concern.  I personally feel that the photo's were available at trial and the evidence was discussed and it's become even more evident reading court transcripts.

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #352 on: July 24, 2017, 08:56:AM »
On 14 September 1985, DS Davidson (SOCO) and DS Eastwood (SOCO) were tasked with fingerprinting the 'Sound Moderator' ('AE/1', 'CAE/1', 'DRB/1')..

On 20th September 1985, the 'Sound Moderator' was submitted to the lab' to be checked for blood and fibers!
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

guest7363

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Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #353 on: July 24, 2017, 08:56:AM »
AHH! The voice of sweet reason. It matters, not a JOT, what we, here, on this forum see -or believe we can see. We witter on about a phone call from Nevill to the police, -always bearing in mind that as negatives can't be proved, the police can't prove they DIDN'T receive a call from him- and about how it "wuz the fuzz wot dun it" to Sheila, and more recently -and reminiscent of the visions of Our Lady at Lourdes- Sheila is said to bear wounds only visible to believers, and which remain concealed to others. As Justice SO sensibly and reasonably says "..................forget the part what I can see, it doesn't matter what I can see, it's what people that matters can see".
Why thanks Jane, coming from my tutor has made my day.  I've been painting pictures in my sleep xx  ;)

Offline Adam

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Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #354 on: July 24, 2017, 08:57:AM »
256. The issue of the absence of sugar on Sheila's feet was of minimal significance in the trial. In the summing up all the references to Sheila Caffell's feet were to the absence of blood rather than sugar. In the prosecution case summary it was said:

"The only blood to be found on the body was that of Sheila Caffell nor was there any debris or blood on the soles of her feet" and in their closing speech: "Compare Sheila to June. June is covered in blood, blood on her feet".

------------

I know supporters will put up a picture of a foot. With barely visible red marks. But the COA is saying June & her feet were covered in blood. Although she only walked a few steps. Sheila wasn't although she had travelled around the house.

« Last Edit: July 24, 2017, 08:58:AM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Roch

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Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #355 on: July 24, 2017, 08:57:AM »
Im sure, if the images you or Bill have and they wasn't available at trial, will have to be looked at and if without a shadow of doubt show scratches, this then could form a basis and would cause concern.  I personally feel that the photo's were available at trial and the evidence was discussed and it's become even more evident reading court transcripts.

Mike used to claim the images used at trial were poor quality - I do not know where he got that information from.  Mike - if you are reading this - can you elaborate?

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #356 on: July 24, 2017, 09:01:AM »
The 'Sound Moderator' ('DRB/1') was not even present at Huntingdon Lab' when blood was supposed to have been found inside it on 12 September 1985, because as the official document shows it did not get sent to the lab' until 20 September 1985! So where did the flake of blood come from which the prosecutions blood expert analysed on 12th, 13th, 18th and 19th September 1985?
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Roch

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Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #357 on: July 24, 2017, 09:02:AM »
AHH! The voice of sweet reason. It matters, not a JOT, what we, here, on this forum see -or believe we can see. We witter on about a phone call from Nevill to the police, -always bearing in mind that as negatives can't be proved, the police can't prove they DIDN'T receive a call from him- and about how it "wuz the fuzz wot dun it" to Sheila, and more recently -and reminiscent of the visions of Our Lady at Lourdes- Sheila is said to bear wounds only visible to believers, and which remain concealed to others. As Justice SO sensibly and reasonably says "..................forget the part what I can see, it doesn't matter what I can see, it's what people that matters can see".

The wounds were not only visible to believers.  So you can put that claim in the trash for starters.  And I suggest that if you cant tell what a fingernail gouge looks like on somebody's hand - then you should try and explain how a neck wound, spurting copious amounts of blood, can cause a smear on the back of a hand, right next to a crescent shaped incision?  You cannot explain it and you will not explain it - that being said - can you please spare us from reading more of your drivel about it?
« Last Edit: July 24, 2017, 09:02:AM by Roch »

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #358 on: July 24, 2017, 09:05:AM »
The 'Sound Moderator' ('DRB/1') was not even present at Huntingdon Lab' when blood was supposed to have been found inside it on 12 September 1985, because as the official document shows it did not get sent to the lab' until 20 September 1985! So where did the flake of blood come from which the prosecutions blood expert analysed on 12th, 13th, 18th and 19th September 1985?

I do not believe that the first silencer ('SBJ/1', 'SJ/1) was returned to the lab' on 30 August 1985, under an exhibit reference of 'DB/1'. I believe a flake of blood was submitted in its place! This being the same flake of blood the expert examined on the aforementioned dates!
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Jane

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Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #359 on: July 24, 2017, 09:06:AM »
The wounds were not only visible to believers.  So you can put that claim in the trash for starters.  And I suggest that if you cant tell what a fingernail gouge looks like on somebody's hand - then you should try and explain how a neck wound, spurting copious amounts of blood, can cause a smear on the back of a hand, right next to a crescent shaped incision?  You cannot explain it and you will not explain it - that being said - can you please spare us from reading more of your drivel about it?

Hmm! Methinks I touched a nerve ;)