Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm

[Roch]

Here are his notes on Sheila's upper limbs, why would he mention an OLD scar on her left hand but leave out new injuries to her right hand and arm? These notes were written during the autopsy - it doesn't make any sense for him to leave out such information. My conclusion is that the CT have jumped the gun and just not thought things through. Venezis had no reason to lie, certainly NOT at that point (in you believe in the conspiracy).

I can't read it - other than upper limbs, bilateral and no other marks.  Vanezis may indeed have had no reason to lie at the outset.

Either there are notes missing (and her upper limbs were described at more than one point in his notes) - or the notes have possibly to some extent been re-written.

I think the opposite is true of the CT - they have not rushed to this at all in my view.

[susan]

I can't read it - other than upper limbs, bilateral and no other marks.  Vanezis may indeed have had no reason to lie at the outset.

Either there are notes missing (and her upper limbs were described at more than one point in his notes) - or the notes have possibly to some extent been re-written.

I think the opposite is true of the CT - they have not rushed to this at all in my view.

Hi Roch

am I correct in thinking in that the first report Vanezis did when it was a murders/suicide he said Sheila,s palm were blood stained and there was a palm print on her nightie then when Jeremy was charged with murder his report was different and he said Sheila's hands were clean.

[Roch]

Hi Roch

am I correct in thinking in that the first report Vanezis did when it was a murders/suicide he said Sheila,s palm were blood stained and there was a palm print on her nightie then when Jeremy was charged with murder his report was different and he said Sheila's hands were clean.

Susan, I think the police / prosecution claimed her palms were free from blood.  Vanezis' post mortem notes seem to contradict this.  I do not know what was said by Vanezis at trial - regarding her palms per se.

[susan]

Susan, I think the police / prosecution claimed her palms were free from blood.  Vanezis' post mortem notes seem to contradict this.  I do not know what was said by Vanezis at trial - regarding her palms per se.

Roch I am not sure but I remember Caroline saying in  his second report when Jeremy was charged with murder he said Sheila's hands were clean.

[Roch]

Roch I am not sure but I remember Caroline saying in  his second report when Jeremy was charged with murder he said Sheila's hands were clean.

Possibly - but I think her point is that in his handwritten notes, he doesnt mention Sheila having any marks on her upper limbs.  Presumably his handwritten notes don't mention the gouges and scrapes upon her right hand either.  Yet you have seen them for your self.   

[Steve_uk]

Possibly - but I think her point is that in his handwritten notes, he doesnt mention Sheila having any marks on her upper limbs.  Presumably his handwritten notes don't mention the gouges and scrapes upon her right hand either.  Yet you have seen them for your self.   

They're consistent with Jeremy manhandling her to the floor, not to anyone who has been in combat with the two adults at the Farm.

[maggie]

They're consistent with Jeremy manhandling her to the floor, not to anyone who has been in combat with the two adults at the Farm.

They look very much to me to have been caused by someone trying to grab at her right hand and arm. Maybe she was holding something someone else wanted. If they are consistent with someone manhandling her to the floor why hide it? 

[susan]

They look very much to me to have been caused by someone trying to grab at her right hand and arm. Maybe she was holding something someone else wanted. If they are consistent with someone manhandling her to the floor why hide it?

Maggie quite right why hide it !!!

[Roch]

They're consistent with Jeremy manhandling her to the floor, not to anyone who has been in combat with the two adults at the Farm.

All three adult victims have fight wounds.  Jeremy has no wounds. 

Which scenario are the above circumstances most consistent with?

(A)  Jeremy fought with all three adults separately - without waking up the twins (unless
       they were killed first) and without sustaining any injuries himself.

(B)  Jeremy fought a combination of two or three adults at the same time - without waking up the
       twins and without sustaining any injuries himself.

(C)  Sheila fought with the other two adults either sperately or in combination - without waking up the
       twins (unless they were killed first).  Jeremy sustains no injuries himself - because he isn't present.

[maggie]

All three adult victims have fight wounds.  Jeremy has no wounds. 

Which scenario are the above circumstances most consistent with?

(A)  Jeremy fought with all three adults separately - without waking up the twins (unless
       they were killed first) and without sustaining any injuries himself.

(B)  Jeremy fought a combination of two or three adults at the same time - without waking up the
       twins and without sustaining any injuries himself.

(C)  Sheila fought with the other two adults either sperately or in combination - without waking up the
       twins (unless they were killed first).  Jeremy sustains no injuries himself - because he isn't present.

It is clear to see Nevill has scratches on his forearms as well as gouge marks. The black marks are very like Sheil's black marks except each of her marks has a trail of blood running from them. Very probably because her blood would be less sticky and have a lower clotting rate due to her age plus Haloperidol has some blood thinning side effects. In comparison Nevill's marks clotted at the source probably due to his blood being stickier with a higher clotting rate.

[Steve_uk]

All three adult victims have fight wounds.  Jeremy has no wounds. 

Which scenario are the above circumstances most consistent with?

(A)  Jeremy fought with all three adults separately, without waking up the twins (unless
       they were killed first) and without sustaining any injuries himself.

(B)  Jeremy fought a combination of two or three adults at the same time - without waking up the
       twins and without sustaining any injuries himself.

(C)  Sheila fought with the other two adults either sperately or in combination, without waking up the
       twins (unless they were killed first).  Jeremy sustains no injuries himself - because he isn't present.

None of them, but Scenario A comes closest. Jeremy may have crept into the twins' room initially and shot them once each in the head to incapacitate, he then moved to the master bedroom where June was shot in bed and Nevill may have sustained the damage to arm or larynx there. Both tried to get downstairs, Nevill in an attempt to use the telephone and Jeremy to reload, which he succeeds in doing. He finishes Nevill off with more bullets, bashes him over the head with the rifle, goes back upstairs where he finds June has edged her way out of bed towards the door. He lashes out with his fist by giving her a black eye, then shoots her right between the eyes. He goes back into the twins room and in an arc pattern completes bullets to the head.

He is then in the position to enter Sheila's room, wake her up as she had done to him one Christmas as adolescents, and lead a disoriented young woman in a matter of seconds to her death.

[Roch]

It is clear to see Nevill has scratches on his forearms as well as gouge marks. The black marks are very like Sheil's black marks except each of her marks has a trail of blood running from them. Very probably because her blood would be less sticky and have a lower clotting rate due to her age plus Haloperidol has some blood thinning side effects. In comparison Nevill's marks clotted at the source probably due to his blood being stickier with a higher clotting rate.

Yes there was a big debate about Nevill's arm a few years ago.  I can remember Alias and Patti being involved.

[maggie]

Yes there was a big debate about Nevill's arm a few years ago.  I can remember Alias and Patti being involved.

I remember the discussion as well. Those marks have always looked like nail injuries to me, particularly as there are scratch marks as well. The official line is that the wounds were caused by the rifle end but that has never sounded convincing to me. I would think Nevill's forearms were weather beaten from working outside in all weather's and therefore his skin would be tough and resilient.  Those wounds were caused by tearing or gouging with something sharp imo.

[David1819]

I repeated the experiment with the same make of oil. However this time I mixed it with acrylic thinner. About 30/70 mix.

You can see one stream change direction as I lifted up my arm to take a photo from underneath.

[David1819]

Is this referring to JB? - I have argued this on here for years.

Yes