Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm

[Jan]

Oh ? I thought you meant they were on the bed with the rifle between them?


On the floor.

[lookout]

Yes,I thought you were thinking on the bed,as until we see or know for sure, otherwise,it was on the floor.

[Roch]

Thank goodness for that. I was hoping I wasn't seeing things Those pics tell a story on their own,they're brilliant thanks to Roch.

Hi Lookout- I didn't provide anything - the images are from the forum.  If anyone should be thanked for these particular images - it is probably Ewen Smith / GDS / Mike.

[lookout]

Hi Lookout- I didn't provide anything - the images are from the forum.  If anyone should be thanked for these particular images - it is probably Ewen Smith / GDS / Mike.

I should have said thanks as a reminder after having already seen the pics a number of years back. One needs a refresher now and again in order to go over a few things, periodically.

Obviously first shown by Mike,as with all or most that are presented here by him.

[Roch]

What does he mean by where the blood flow ends ?

Literally stops. 

Vanezis claimed that the ‘runs’ of blood on Sheila’s lower arm were from her neck wound.  He claimed that the darker spots, were in effect, where the runs came to an end, i.e. stopped flowing any further on her arm.  The darker spots are supposed to be caused by the blood having collected in one place, due to the run not flowing any further.

[lookout]

Literally stops. 

Vanezis claimed that the ‘runs’ of blood on Sheila’s lower arm were from her neck wound.  He claimed that the darker spots, were in effect, where the runs came to an end, i.e. stopped flowing any further on her arm.  The darker spots are supposed to be caused by the blood having collected in one place, due to the run not flowing any further.

The blood spots are darker because they came from the jugular vein where the blood is darker than that from an artery.
Because Sheila's arm would have been raised ( across her chest ) the blood from her neck would naturally have dropped onto her arm and run down the sides. Sheila would have to have been sitting up for this to happen.
I don't get where he says " the runs came to an end ". Of course they would if her heart wasn't pumping sufficiently enough for it to carry on running. Vascular shock leading to unconsciousness would have put paid to that.

[susan]

The blood spots are darker because they came from the jugular vein where the blood is darker than that from an artery.
Because Sheila's arm would have been raised ( across her chest ) the blood from her neck would naturally have dropped onto her arm and run down the sides. Sheila would have to have been sitting up for this to happen.
I don't get where he says " the runs came to an end ". Of course they would if her heart wasn't pumping sufficiently enough for it to carry on running. Vascular shock leading to unconsciousness would have put paid to that.

Wow lookout your post is very impressive bet you were an excellent nurse.  Well done.

[maggie]

Literally stops. 

Vanezis claimed that the ‘runs’ of blood on Sheila’s lower arm were from her neck wound.  He claimed that the darker spots, were in effect, where the runs came to an end, i.e. stopped flowing any further on her arm.  The darker spots are supposed to be caused by the blood having collected in one place, due to the run not flowing any further.

Imo, the blood could not stop running like that.  Sheila was a young woman her blood would be quite fluid. Not sure if  a side effect of Haldol is that it thinned the blood but either way it's highly unlikely Sheila's blood would be sticky enough to behave in that way. To me and because my pics on my tablet seem to be clearer than most, they're certainly clearer than on my laptop, the source of the blood is from the darker, thicker spots and those marks  appear to be cuts or tears made by sharp nails or something similar.

[lookout]

Imo, the blood could not stop running like that.  Sheila was a young woman her blood would be quite fluid. Not sure if  a side effect of Haldol is that it thinned the blood but either way it's highly unlikely Sheila's blood would be sticky enough to behave in that way. To me and because my pics on my tablet seem to be clearer than most, they're certainly clearer than on my laptop, the source of the blood is from the darker, thicker spots and those marks  appear to be cuts or tears made by sharp nails or something similar.

Which would coincide with the " impressed " hand mark on her upper arm if the darker areas are indeed injuries. 

[maggie]

Which would coincide with the " impressed " hand mark on her upper arm if the darker areas are indeed injuries.

Just checked, while Haloperidol is not a blood thinner per se it seems you need to tell your doctor if you are prescribed it while you on blood thinners.  That surely points to the fact that it has some blood thinning properties which would support the fact Sheila's blood would be fluid and not thick or sticky enough to stop running and dry the way it was claimed.

[susan]

Imo, the blood could not stop running like that.  Sheila was a young woman her blood would be quite fluid. Not sure if  a side effect of Haldol is that it thinned the blood but either way it's highly unlikely Sheila's blood would be sticky enough to behave in that way. To me and because my pics on my tablet seem to be clearer than most, they're certainly clearer than on my laptop, the source of the blood is from the darker, thicker spots and those marks  appear to be cuts or tears made by sharp nails or something similar.

Maggie great post from you too

[maggie]

Maggie great post from you too

Hi Susan, Sheila would be even more likely to bleed from small wounds if her blood was slightly thinner than someone her age not taking  Haloperidol. Neil and June are obviously older and many older people, especialy 30 years ago tended to have stickier blood which means they may not bleed from small wounds, as we see with Nevill.

[Roch]

The blood spots are darker because they came from the jugular vein where the blood is darker than that from an artery.
Because Sheila's arm would have been raised ( across her chest ) the blood from her neck would naturally have dropped onto her arm and run down the sides. Sheila would have to have been sitting up for this to happen.
I don't get where he says " the runs came to an end ". Of course they would if her heart wasn't pumping sufficiently enough for it to carry on running. Vascular shock leading to unconsciousness would have put paid to that.

He claimed at trial that the darker spots were at the end of the runs of blood.  Not the beginning.

[lookout]

He claimed at trial that the darker spots were at the end of the runs of blood.  Not the beginning.

I don't agree with him.

[Roch]

I don't agree with him.

If anybody doesn't agree with him then two things happen.

Firstly, they place themselves in opposition to the pathologist's findings expressed at trial (obviously). 

Secondly, they are faced with solving the question at the beginning of this thread.