DCI 621 Stuart Smith Specsavers Challenge

[Adam]

Jan sadly Adam only sees what suits him nobody can say Sheila's hands were clean and believe it.

And you post things then deny posting it.

[Roch]

I don't believe she was reasoned with at the barrel of a gun. She had no idea what was happening for those few seconds she was dragged across the corridor into the master bedroom, stumbled over June, told to lie down whereupon Jeremy precipitously fired the first report, hence the mistake.

How did she obtain nail gouges on her hand, if this happened?  A more likely scenario is that there was a desperate struggle to get her hand to release whatever it was holding on to.  Have you seen the condition of her arm as well?  Go and have a look in the forum archive.

[Steve_uk]

How did she obtain nail gouges on her hand, if this happened?  A more likely scenario is that there was a desperate struggle to get her hand to release whatever it was holding on to.  Have you seen the condition of her arm as well?  Go and have a look in the forum archive.

I don't see any nail gouges, neither is the photograph of her arm in the section marked "Case related photographs" in "Archive." She had difficulty pouring a drink into a tumbler, let alone reloading a rifle. I really do think some of you on here are in denial, and should research schizophrenia and the effects of Haloperidol a little further.

[Roch]

I don't see any nail gouges, neither is the photograph of her arm in the section marked "Case related photographs" in "Archive." She had difficulty pouring a drink into a tumbler, let alone reloading a rifle. I really do think some of you on here are in denial, and should research schizophrenia and the effects of Haloperidol a little further.

So what is the crescent dark line then?  What kind of bloodstain begins or ends in such a formation? 

And what's the raw looking indent on the inside of the bottom of her index?  Is that also just an isolated rectangular bloodstain?     Nothing to do with gripping a rifle then... given that she was the original prime suspect?

neither is the photograph of her arm in the section marked "Case related photographs" in "Archive."

Steve, how does an injured person on the brink of death move their arm back and forth below their neck wound in order to receive four blobs of blood in succession? 

Also - how many fingers do we have on a human hand - minus the thumb?  When you grab something like an arm (from a certain angle) - you place four fingers on top and a thumb undereath or to the side. 

[Caroline]

If the image had been put up 2014 before you turned guilty, I don't think you would have had any difficulty seeing the scrapes or their source nail gouges.  But you have boxed your-self in now, on the opposition benches with the hardline guilters.  So you  have to try and bluff it out and play 🙈

Not at all, I really don't see any gouges or scrapes - just smears. Please don't suggest I'm lying Roch, if I saw gouges, I'd say so. I don't follow everything the guilty side believes. I don't agree with the silencer and I do believe her palms were bloodied. Don't do a David and tell me what I think - I have told you what I think and would have said the same in 2014 or even when I thought Bamber was innocent (I didn't think he was innocent in 2014).

[Roch]

Not at all, I really don't see any gouges or scrapes - just smears. Please don't suggest I'm lying Roch, if I saw gouges, I'd say so. I don't follow everything the guilty side believes. I don't agree with the silencer and I do believe her palms were bloodied. Don't do a David and tell me what I think - I have told you what I think and would have said the same in 2014 or even when I thought Bamber was innocent (I didn't think he was innocent in 2014).

I'm not calling you a liar - but I am calling out those who claim they are 'just smears'.  The claim doesn't hold any credibility.  If they are smears then they need to be explained.  Anybody can zoom in even further and take an even closer look - even on the video still Hartley put up.  Whether they are smears or scrapes (and I suggest the latter) - they have a source.  If the darker deeper mark is not the source - then it is the end of the smear or scrape - and how can that be explained?

[Roch]

I think nails were scraped in a dragging action.  Where the lacerations occur - is where the nails dug in to the skin and effectively stopped scraping.

[Caroline]

I'm not calling you a liar - but I am calling out those who claim they are 'just smears'.  The claim doesn't hold any credibility.  If they are smears then they need to be explained.  Anybody can zoom in even further and take an even closer look - even on the video still Hartley put up.  Whether they are smears or scrapes (and I suggest the latter) - they have a source.  If the darker deeper mark is not the source - then it is the end of the smear or scrape - and how can that be explained?

I have zoomed in and I don't agree that they are gouges and scrapes, unless we know what went on that night we can't explain it, those that can are either dead or in prison.

[Caroline]

I think nails were scraped in a dragging action.  Where the lacerations occur - is where the nails dug in to the skin and effectively stopped scraping.

I know you think that, I don't, I think they are just blood smears.

[Harry]

DCI 621 Stuart Smith of Essex Police is the gatekeeper for all issues relating to Jeremy Bamber. Please see the attached document.

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=8501.0;attach=49280

Here's the substance of the document.

Detective Chief Inspector 621 Stuart Smith of Kent and Essex Serious Crime Directorate has received a report detailing how the jury at the trial of Jeremy Bamber was misled by the pathologist Dr Peter Vanezis. There were in fact at least 70 wounds to the three adult victims not disclosed by Vanezis; he repeatedly said that there were no wounds to Sheila Caffell other than two bullet wounds in her neck.

Vanezis said that all the blood shown in the picture below resulted from blood running down the arm from a single bullet wound to the throat of Sheila Caffell. DCI Smith has said that he cannot see any cuts, gouges, scratches or any other kind of wound in photographs provided to him.

“The images that you include are of very low quality... There is absolutely no way that any person could reasonably say that the marks and blood trails that you depict are injuries”.

Is your eyesight better than DCI Smith’s? How many wounds do you see on Sheila’s hand?



Mr Justice Drake to the witness: No evidence of any other injury, what about the possibility that she had been involved in some fighting or scuffling to leave any sort of marks, other than what one might term “an injury”?

Vanezis: There was certainly no evidence of any other marks that could have been produced in a scuffle

In determining whether Jeremy Bamber was guilty of murder, any evidence that his sister, Sheila Caffell, fought with anyone inside White House Farm (WHF) in the early hours of 7th August 1985, changes the fundamental premise behind the Prosecution case against Bamber. For, supported by misleading testimony from the pathologist, Dr Peter Vanezis, the prosecution could state that Sheila received only two wounds, both gunshots to her neck. By thus testifying, Vanezis enabled the prosecution to present Sheila Caffell as an innocent victim rather than the perpetrator of violence.

The suppression of evidence that both June and Nevill Bamber received multiple minor injuries due to fighting with Sheila over possession of the rifle further enhanced the stage-managed evidence given at trial by Vanezis to the effect that only Jeremy could have been responsible for the deaths of his family. Jeremy did not kill his family –

[Harry]

In his report of September 30 1985 page 06 Vanezis goes into some detail in describing how the fractures to Nevill's skull were caused by gunshots.

Gunshot Wounds.
    1 Entry wound on the right side side of the head just in front of the right ear measuring 3/16

    2 Entry wound above previous wound also measuring 3/16

    The track of the above two rounds was through the temporal bone
    causing two punctured holes in the skull with associated linear
    fractures radiating to the top to the skull in the frontal bones
    as far as thu saggital suture as well as across the right orbital
    plate and frontal bone. The track of both wounds continued through
    the brain causing disruptive injury principally to both temporal
    lobes, right parietul lobe and midbrain structures. One of the
    bullets then caused everted fractures to the left parietal bone
    with the bullet embedded in the fracture site. The other bullet
     had exited just behind the left ear causing a fracture in the
    temporal bone and a small exit laceration. The bullet was found
    embedded in the laceration.

    3 Entry wound in the right parietel region measuring 1/2 inch.

    4 Entry wound 1/2 inch posterior to wound also measuring 1/2 inch

    The track of the above two wounds was in a downward direction from the deceased's right
    to left side. The bullets had initially caused two punctured fractures to the right parietal bone which merged into each other. These fractures were also associated with radiations in three directions.
    The brain was severely disrupted and bullet fragments were also seen. The base of the skull was severely fractured.

But in his report of May 07 1986 page 03 he seems to contradict everything he said on the matter in September 30 1985.

In my view none of the fractures to the skull were associated with gunshot injuries. The bruising to both eyes in my view could not be associated solely with fractures to the skull but in my view could also have been caused by blows by a blunt object or objects in the vicinity.

The pattern emerges

Sheila couldn't have done it because her hands were free of blood.

Sheila couldn't have done it because she was not strong enough to cause the fractures to Nevill's skull with blows with the rifle butt.

Sheila couldn't have done it because she had no marks to suggest she had been in a struggle.

This kind of thing happens far more often than people think. It's not just about getting paid, but about ambition. If a pathologist has helped the prosecution get a conviction in a high profile case he will get a reputation as prosecution friendly and more work precisely because astute prosecutors know he is willing to bend the truth.

[Harry]

Here's a good post from McGirr at injustice anywhere

http://www.injusticeanywhereforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=123&t=2931&start=10000#p187958

"The leading cause of wrongful convictions is dishonest expert witnesses, selling their services for money in a system that protects them with immunity. There is no excusing these people or trying to minimise the damage they cause."

[guest2181]

In his report of September 30 1985 page 06 Vanezis goes into some detail in describing how the fractures to Nevill's skull were caused by gunshots.

But in his report of May 07 1986 page 03 he seems to contradict everything he said on the matter in September 30 1985.

Seems like misinterpretation on your part here.

The section referred to in his 07/05/86 statement is headed "Other external Injuries".

He is clearly describing additional blows to the head causing lacerations, cuts, bruising and external fractures not associated with gunshot wounds.

[Roch]

I know you think that, I don't, I think they are just blood smears.

From where? And how? What kind of blood smear ends in a crescent shape laceration - unless the smear is from the laceration itself? How does blood drip on to an arm and form a thin dark crescent line?

[Adam]

Here's the substance of the document.

Detective Chief Inspector 621 Stuart Smith of Kent and Essex Serious Crime Directorate has received a report detailing how the jury at the trial of Jeremy Bamber was misled by the pathologist Dr Peter Vanezis. There were in fact at least 70 wounds to the three adult victims not disclosed by Vanezis; he repeatedly said that there were no wounds to Sheila Caffell other than two bullet wounds in her neck.

Vanezis said that all the blood shown in the picture below resulted from blood running down the arm from a single bullet wound to the throat of Sheila Caffell. DCI Smith has said that he cannot see any cuts, gouges, scratches or any other kind of wound in photographs provided to him.

“The images that you include are of very low quality... There is absolutely no way that any person could reasonably say that the marks and blood trails that you depict are injuries”.

Is your eyesight better than DCI Smith’s? How many wounds do you see on Sheila’s hand?



Mr Justice Drake to the witness: No evidence of any other injury, what about the possibility that she had been involved in some fighting or scuffling to leave any sort of marks, other than what one might term “an injury”?

Vanezis: There was certainly no evidence of any other marks that could have been produced in a scuffle

In determining whether Jeremy Bamber was guilty of murder, any evidence that his sister, Sheila Caffell, fought with anyone inside White House Farm (WHF) in the early hours of 7th August 1985, changes the fundamental premise behind the Prosecution case against Bamber. For, supported by misleading testimony from the pathologist, Dr Peter Vanezis, the prosecution could state that Sheila received only two wounds, both gunshots to her neck. By thus testifying, Vanezis enabled the prosecution to present Sheila Caffell as an innocent victim rather than the perpetrator of violence.

The suppression of evidence that both June and Nevill Bamber received multiple minor injuries due to fighting with Sheila over possession of the rifle further enhanced the stage-managed evidence given at trial by Vanezis to the effect that only Jeremy could have been responsible for the deaths of his family. Jeremy did not kill his family –

'Vanezis said that all the blood shown in the picture below resulted from blood running down the arm from a single bullet wound to the throat of Sheila Caffell. DCI Smith has said that he cannot see any cuts, gouges, scratches or any other kind of wound in photographs provided to him.'

That sounds about right.