Author Topic: What Happened To The Soil Samples?  (Read 21849 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline lookout

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 48670
Re: What Happened To The Soil Samples?
« Reply #75 on: June 25, 2017, 06:12:PM »
So you admit the evidence seen doesn't prove innocence?





I'm not admitting anything !

Offline maggie

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13651
Re: What Happened To The Soil Samples?
« Reply #76 on: June 25, 2017, 06:14:PM »
He said the information which confirmed to him that Sheila was the killer is in the public domain and indeed on this forum. He also said it had been argued on here between Hartley and Mike. See the various quotes below.
I know he did. I said I don't believe it is anything to do with the sighting of a rifle  by Jeapes which was the post I was replying to. Maybe I misunderstood your original post. 
I was reinforcing the fact that Roch had seen the evidence therefore his info isn't hearsay but fact. :-\
« Last Edit: June 25, 2017, 06:21:PM by maggie »

guest7363

  • Guest
Re: What Happened To The Soil Samples?
« Reply #77 on: June 25, 2017, 06:15:PM »
Got anymore leads from your mysterious wedding tipster?
Yes, don't get married

guest7363

  • Guest
Re: What Happened To The Soil Samples?
« Reply #78 on: June 25, 2017, 06:47:PM »
I'm in no hurry.Are you ?
I don't think the CCRC is either, they are reviewing 640 cases already and another 311 awaiting review.

Offline Roch

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17579
Re: What Happened To The Soil Samples?
« Reply #79 on: June 25, 2017, 07:10:PM »
Sorry this doesn’t relate to soil samples. 

A one-off.   Just to correct some incorrect remarks on this thread.

Maggie is right.   The evidence I refer to was probably created before 06.09.  Therefore of itself, it does not directly relate to the point raised by Caroline. 
 
Listed below is what I tried to previously express (together with some additional opinion):

(1) Evidence has always existed which clearly implicates Sheila Caffell’s involvement in the killings.
It is evidence that the police have always held - from day one.   According to the forum, we are now up to 11592 days since Jeremy Bamber was imprisoned.  Please take a moment just to consider the enormity of these two things existing in tandem.  This is one of the reasons why the case is ‘political’ and therefore obdurate.   It would take a brave officer currently serving, to reverse EP’s policy on this.  I would like to think that they do have officers of a high calibre, who would go against the grain. 

(2) It is evidence that was collated on the morning of the killings.
Some of that evidence exists on the forum – but it has been ‘misread’ – partly as a consequence of deliberate misrepresentation.   Broad terms I accept.   However I have left a little clue here - with my use of inverted commas.

(3) The official position of the relatives, is based upon the case as presented under the stewardship of Mick Ainsley: which was concocted by a combination of excluding and misrepresenting the evidence I refer to. 

(4) It is not inconceivable, that during the period of animosity between DCI Jones and the relatives (re Sheila being / not being the killer), the relatives were made aware of certain facts pertaining to this evidence – or at the very least – opinion was given to the relatives, based upon facts pertaining to this evidence.   My reasoning for this is based upon the fact that we know conversations took place and that the evidence in question would not in itself have impacted upon the reputation of police (i.e. how they handled events that morning).   In addition, we know the fact that the house had been found secured from the inside was discussed with relatives around this time.   Again – not a factor in any way reflecting badly upon the performance of Police that morning.   

(5) My interpretation of the relatives’ stance fitting in with the case under Ainsley, is that this was born out of relatives being prepped, in order to obtain the conviction in the first place – i.e. if pressed, relatives are forever boxed-in to regurgitating the case under Ainsley.  Privately, I suspect they harbour opinions that don’t fit with the official case under Ainsley (in fact I know they do).


(6) If the relatives were faced with a situation where this evidence was revealed publically (calling in to question the safety of the conviction etc.), my guess is they would fall-back upon a particular line of defence.   This would be to claim they were not made privy to this specific evidence at the outset – thereby laying the blame for wrongful conviction solely at the feet of Essex Constabulary.   I would hate for the relatives to be able to do that – they were THE driving force in the wrongful conviction.

(7) My opinion - the most likely dynamic here is that there were some police who were open to being ‘got at’ in some way or form.  In particular, I strongly suspect that Mick Ainsley was susceptible to cooperating with the will of Robert Boutflour.  It should be noted that after the first appeal and first review, Mick Ainsley retired from Essex Constabulary with his pension etc.  Perhaps he felt the coast was clear?  At some point he later became linked to operations at Osea Rd.   

(8) With regard to me passing / not passing evidence on to somebody else (whoever that may be).  Completely irrelevant.  In the first instance, the defence already know about this evidence.  Secondly, the police have had it for more than 11592 days.

(9)  With regard to me posting-up evidence on this forum to satisfy the capricious demands of others – including those who labelled me and Bill as ‘dishonest’ etc.  No thanks.  Reading the repeated scoffing remarks like ‘unsubstantiated and conspiracy’.  It’s like hearing Theresa May drone on about ‘strong and stable’.   Again – no thanks.

(10)  I also saw that HG questioned why I took the approach that I did.  The answer is that I was simply being honest and constrained at the same time.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2017, 07:13:PM by Roch »

Offline lookout

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 48670
Re: What Happened To The Soil Samples?
« Reply #80 on: June 25, 2017, 07:27:PM »
Sorry this doesn’t relate to soil samples. 

A one-off.   Just to correct some incorrect remarks on this thread.

Maggie is right.   The evidence I refer to was probably created before 06.09.  Therefore of itself, it does not directly relate to the point raised by Caroline. 
 
Listed below is what I tried to previously express (together with some additional opinion):

(1) Evidence has always existed which clearly implicates Sheila Caffell’s involvement in the killings.
It is evidence that the police have always held - from day one.   According to the forum, we are now up to 11592 days since Jeremy Bamber was imprisoned.  Please take a moment just to consider the enormity of these two things existing in tandem.  This is one of the reasons why the case is ‘political’ and therefore obdurate.   It would take a brave officer currently serving, to reverse EP’s policy on this.  I would like to think that they do have officers of a high calibre, who would go against the grain. 

(2) It is evidence that was collated on the morning of the killings.
Some of that evidence exists on the forum – but it has been ‘misread’ – partly as a consequence of deliberate misrepresentation.   Broad terms I accept.   However I have left a little clue here - with my use of inverted commas.

(3) The official position of the relatives, is based upon the case as presented under the stewardship of Mick Ainsley: which was concocted by a combination of excluding and misrepresenting the evidence I refer to. 

(4) It is not inconceivable, that during the period of animosity between DCI Jones and the relatives (re Sheila being / not being the killer), the relatives were made aware of certain facts pertaining to this evidence – or at the very least – opinion was given to the relatives, based upon facts pertaining to this evidence.   My reasoning for this is based upon the fact that we know conversations took place and that the evidence in question would not in itself have impacted upon the reputation of police (i.e. how they handled events that morning).   In addition, we know the fact that the house had been found secured from the inside was discussed with relatives around this time.   Again – not a factor in any way reflecting badly upon the performance of Police that morning.   

(5) My interpretation of the relatives’ stance fitting in with the case under Ainsley, is that this was born out of relatives being prepped, in order to obtain the conviction in the first place – i.e. if pressed, relatives are forever boxed-in to regurgitating the case under Ainsley.  Privately, I suspect they harbour opinions that don’t fit with the official case under Ainsley (in fact I know they do).


(6) If the relatives were faced with a situation where this evidence was revealed publically (calling in to question the safety of the conviction etc.), my guess is they would fall-back upon a particular line of defence.   This would be to claim they were not made privy to this specific evidence at the outset – thereby laying the blame for wrongful conviction solely at the feet of Essex Constabulary.   I would hate for the relatives to be able to do that – they were THE driving force in the wrongful conviction.

(7) My opinion - the most likely dynamic here is that there were some police who were open to being ‘got at’ in some way or form.  In particular, I strongly suspect that Mick Ainsley was susceptible to cooperating with the will of Robert Boutflour.  It should be noted that after the first appeal and first review, Mick Ainsley retired from Essex Constabulary with his pension etc.  Perhaps he felt the coast was clear?  At some point he later became linked to operations at Osea Rd.   

(8) With regard to me passing / not passing evidence on to somebody else (whoever that may be).  Completely irrelevant.  In the first instance, the defence already know about this evidence.  Secondly, the police have had it for more than 11592 days.

(9)  With regard to me posting-up evidence on this forum to satisfy the capricious demands of others – including those who labelled me and Bill as ‘dishonest’ etc.  No thanks.  Reading the repeated scoffing remarks like ‘unsubstantiated and conspiracy’.  It’s like hearing Theresa May drone on about ‘strong and stable’.   Again – no thanks.

(10)  I also saw that HG questioned why I took the approach that I did.  The answer is that I was simply being honest and constrained at the same time.






A very good post Roch and well explained.

guest7363

  • Guest
Re: What Happened To The Soil Samples?
« Reply #81 on: June 25, 2017, 07:31:PM »





A very good post Roch and well explained.
Yes I thought that, the evidence is there but it's just been misread?

Offline Caroline

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 27076
Re: What Happened To The Soil Samples?
« Reply #82 on: June 25, 2017, 07:37:PM »
Sorry this doesn’t relate to soil samples. 

A one-off.   Just to correct some incorrect remarks on this thread.

Maggie is right.   The evidence I refer to was probably created before 06.09.  Therefore of itself, it does not directly relate to the point raised by Caroline. 
 
Listed below is what I tried to previously express (together with some additional opinion):

(1) Evidence has always existed which clearly implicates Sheila Caffell’s involvement in the killings.
It is evidence that the police have always held - from day one.   According to the forum, we are now up to 11592 days since Jeremy Bamber was imprisoned.  Please take a moment just to consider the enormity of these two things existing in tandem.  This is one of the reasons why the case is ‘political’ and therefore obdurate.   It would take a brave officer currently serving, to reverse EP’s policy on this.  I would like to think that they do have officers of a high calibre, who would go against the grain. 

(2) It is evidence that was collated on the morning of the killings.
Some of that evidence exists on the forum – but it has been ‘misread’ – partly as a consequence of deliberate misrepresentation.   Broad terms I accept.   However I have left a little clue here - with my use of inverted commas.

(3) The official position of the relatives, is based upon the case as presented under the stewardship of Mick Ainsley: which was concocted by a combination of excluding and misrepresenting the evidence I refer to. 

(4) It is not inconceivable, that during the period of animosity between DCI Jones and the relatives (re Sheila being / not being the killer), the relatives were made aware of certain facts pertaining to this evidence – or at the very least – opinion was given to the relatives, based upon facts pertaining to this evidence.   My reasoning for this is based upon the fact that we know conversations took place and that the evidence in question would not in itself have impacted upon the reputation of police (i.e. how they handled events that morning).   In addition, we know the fact that the house had been found secured from the inside was discussed with relatives around this time.   Again – not a factor in any way reflecting badly upon the performance of Police that morning.   

(5) My interpretation of the relatives’ stance fitting in with the case under Ainsley, is that this was born out of relatives being prepped, in order to obtain the conviction in the first place – i.e. if pressed, relatives are forever boxed-in to regurgitating the case under Ainsley.  Privately, I suspect they harbour opinions that don’t fit with the official case under Ainsley (in fact I know they do).


(6) If the relatives were faced with a situation where this evidence was revealed publically (calling in to question the safety of the conviction etc.), my guess is they would fall-back upon a particular line of defence.   This would be to claim they were not made privy to this specific evidence at the outset – thereby laying the blame for wrongful conviction solely at the feet of Essex Constabulary.   I would hate for the relatives to be able to do that – they were THE driving force in the wrongful conviction.

(7) My opinion - the most likely dynamic here is that there were some police who were open to being ‘got at’ in some way or form.  In particular, I strongly suspect that Mick Ainsley was susceptible to cooperating with the will of Robert Boutflour.  It should be noted that after the first appeal and first review, Mick Ainsley retired from Essex Constabulary with his pension etc.  Perhaps he felt the coast was clear?  At some point he later became linked to operations at Osea Rd.   

(8) With regard to me passing / not passing evidence on to somebody else (whoever that may be).  Completely irrelevant.  In the first instance, the defence already know about this evidence.  Secondly, the police have had it for more than 11592 days.

(9)  With regard to me posting-up evidence on this forum to satisfy the capricious demands of others – including those who labelled me and Bill as ‘dishonest’ etc.  No thanks.  Reading the repeated scoffing remarks like ‘unsubstantiated and conspiracy’.  It’s like hearing Theresa May drone on about ‘strong and stable’.   Again – no thanks.

(10)  I also saw that HG questioned why I took the approach that I did.  The answer is that I was simply being honest and constrained at the same time.

You're saying the evidence has been 'misread' but if that's the case, it must mean it can be taken two ways - so maybe you have misread it. This is the case with a lot of things that have been claimed to show innocence, they can  taken two ways. You say the point I raised doesn't 'directly' relate to the evidence that you (won't) refer to so it MUST indirectly relate to it.
Few people have the imagination for reality

Offline lookout

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 48670
Re: What Happened To The Soil Samples?
« Reply #83 on: June 25, 2017, 07:38:PM »
Yes I thought that, the evidence is there but it's just been misread?





It takes someone with brains and know-how you see justice.  ;D  Well done on his part. Really speaking,there's no more need for a debate after that,it's self-explanatory.

guest7363

  • Guest
Re: What Happened To The Soil Samples?
« Reply #84 on: June 25, 2017, 07:40:PM »




It takes someone with brains and know-how you see justice.  ;D  Well done on his part. Really speaking,there's no more need for a debate after that,it's self-explanatory.
Whoops I've just misread your post Lookout, I thought you was talking about me then, brains and know-how?

Offline lookout

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 48670
Re: What Happened To The Soil Samples?
« Reply #85 on: June 25, 2017, 07:41:PM »
Whoops I've just misread your post Lookout, I thought you was talking about me then, brains and know-how?




Aw,yes,you as well.x

Offline Roch

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17579
Re: What Happened To The Soil Samples?
« Reply #86 on: June 25, 2017, 07:57:PM »
You're saying the evidence has been 'misread' but if that's the case, it must mean it can be taken two ways - so maybe you have misread it. This is the case with a lot of things that have been claimed to show innocence, they can  taken two ways. You say the point I raised doesn't 'directly' relate to the evidence that you (won't) refer to so it MUST indirectly relate to it.

I should have added a point (11).   This conversation has happened before.   

The evidence in its originally witnessed and recorded form, could not have been read two-ways (so to speak).  In order to create a second interpretation of the evidence, it was necessary to part conceal it / part misrepresent it.

What they did was tactically desperate and brazened.  The fact they pulled it off is horrifying.

I've gone over my one post - so I'll leave it there. 

guest7363

  • Guest
Re: What Happened To The Soil Samples?
« Reply #87 on: June 25, 2017, 08:21:PM »



Aw,yes,you as well.x
Thanks Lookout x

Offline susan

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 16196
Re: What Happened To The Soil Samples?
« Reply #88 on: June 25, 2017, 09:51:PM »
Roch

An excellent honest post from you my friend.  Well done.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2017, 09:23:AM by susan »

Offline Caroline

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 27076
Re: What Happened To The Soil Samples?
« Reply #89 on: June 25, 2017, 11:38:PM »
I should have added a point (11).   This conversation has happened before.   

The evidence in its originally witnessed and recorded form, could not have been read two-ways (so to speak).  In order to create a second interpretation of the evidence, it was necessary to part conceal it / part misrepresent it.

What they did was tactically desperate and brazened.  The fact they pulled it off is horrifying.

I've gone over my one post - so I'll leave it there.

And yet you say it has been 'misread' - I'm sure you believe that Roch, I certainly don't.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2017, 12:02:PM by Caroline »
Few people have the imagination for reality