Audio

[Alias]

Thank you for your thoughts on this.

chocho: "Unlike Jeremy Bamber, I hadn't been locked away in prison in a surreal and artificial, 25 year time warp when I was interviewed. My freedom did not partly depend on how well I might do in those interviews.  How hard must it be to come across as natural under such circumstances!"

That could be true.

I don't know what to think - I wish I could make up my mind!

Assisted Breaking System.  That's what I think of every time I see abs 

Are you back on the fence after your trip over to the other side? 

Hanging in mid air... I need some ground under my feet regarding this frustrating case. Not a thing makes sense to me! 
I don't WANT to think that Jeremy did this and I have a hard time picturing it; but there are elements that tell me that he might have.
He doesn't display any emotion talking about his family (and never once mentions the twin boys). Perhaps a tiny hint of emotion when he talks about how he "walks" with his dad, I have to be fair. You can hear that he is very emotional talking about the drawing a friend made for him of him standing outside with his fist raised. Only emotion for himself...

[Roch]

Thank you for your thoughts on this.

chocho: "Unlike Jeremy Bamber, I hadn't been locked away in prison in a surreal and artificial, 25 year time warp when I was interviewed. My freedom did not partly depend on how well I might do in those interviews.  How hard must it be to come across as natural under such circumstances!"

That could be true.

I don't know what to think - I wish I could make up my mind!

Assisted Breaking System.  That's what I think of every time I see abs 

Are you back on the fence after your trip over to the other side? 

Hanging in mid air... I need some ground under my feet regarding this frustrating case. Not a thing makes sense to me! 
I don't WANT to think that Jeremy did this and I have a hard time picturing it; but there are elements that tell me that he might have.
He doesn't display any emotion talking about his family (and never once mentions the twin boys). Perhaps a tiny hint of emotion when he talks about how he "walks" with his dad, I have to be fair. You can hear that he is very emotional talking about the drawing a friend made for him of him standing outside with his fist raised. Only emotion for himself...

I find some of his verbal statements oddly phrased.  The statement about visiting a supermarket to buy a mangoe was light-hearted and understandable, if quirky.  The statement about the informatives propping up his 'dear old mum and dad' was misplaced in its' quirkyness.  I think he doesn't come across well and I wonder if this aided in the relatives in turning against him.  In life, some people are not great communicators.  Where other statements made by him also meant to be quirky but were actually out of place and open to being interpreted in a more sisniter manner "oh no uncle bobby" etc.  He doesn't strike me as a a young man who would have necessarily conformed to what was deemed appropriate by his family, re day to day verbal communication.   

[Roch]

On the 6 minute tape, he doesn't sound guilty to me.  It's a cracking interview.  His blog says he's been banned from any other interviews with journalists / docu-makers etc. 

[chochokeira]

Thank you for your thoughts on this.

chocho: "Unlike Jeremy Bamber, I hadn't been locked away in prison in a surreal and artificial, 25 year time warp when I was interviewed. My freedom did not partly depend on how well I might do in those interviews.  How hard must it be to come across as natural under such circumstances!"

That could be true.

I don't know what to think - I wish I could make up my mind!

Assisted Breaking System.  That's what I think of every time I see abs 

Are you back on the fence after your trip over to the other side? 

Hanging in mid air... I need some ground under my feet regarding this frustrating case. Not a thing makes sense to me! 
I don't WANT to think that Jeremy did this and I have a hard time picturing it; but there are elements that tell me that he might have.
He doesn't display any emotion talking about his family (and never once mentions the twin boys). Perhaps a tiny hint of emotion when he talks about how he "walks" with his dad, I have to be fair. You can hear that he is very emotional talking about the drawing a friend made for him of him standing outside with his fist raised. Only emotion for himself...

Hi abs,

We must remember that Jeremy Bamber has been locked away in the harsh environment of HM prisons for over 25 years, since he was a young man of just 24 years old.

Imagine it. You're 24, an innocent man and you've just been locked up in a cell for the next 25 years. In a few years time the Home Secretary is going to come along and play a pretty mean trick on you by telling you, sorry, chum, I've decided to leave you here to rot: you will never leave prison, you will die there. But you don't yet know that this is going to happen. How strong will you have to become to survive this, abs?

Brian Keenan, one of the Beirut hostages who was a captive for around 5 years - like Jeremy, he was in solitary confinement for part of that time - wrote a wonderful book about his experiences and the effect of captivity on the human mind. The book's called 'Evil Cradling'.

Keenan writes of his constant struggle to remain sane. He describes that one method he had for keeping a tenuous hold on his sanity was to mentally rerun every piece of music he'd ever heard and every film he'd ever seen, day after day, after day. Some days though the strategy didn't work. Sitting there for months on end, all alone, with no one to talk to or to reassure him that he was alive and still existed, that he would survive, Keenan went to the brink of madness and back. At those times, all of his films and music would play simultaneously and take over his mind. Then Keenan would do a crazy little dance to the resultant demented cacophony of sounds and images until he callapsed in exhaustion.

Some days there'd be a terrible squawking and a flock of imaginary birds would fill his cell as terrified Keenan flung himself around in an attempt to escape them.

One of the other Beirut hostages, John McCarthy, also wrote a wonderful book about his captivity which he called, "Some Other Rainbow." The first page of the book has the lyrics to one of the songs he replayed in his mind while sitting there in his lonely cell:

Wonderful Remark

How can you stand the silence
That pervades when we all cry?
How can you watch the violence
That erupts before your eyes?


How can you tell us something
Just to keep us hangin' on?
Something that just don't mean nothing
When we see it you are gone


Clinging to some other rainbow
While we're waiting in the cold
Telling us the same old story
Knowing time is growing old.

That was a Wonderful Remark
I had my eyes closed in the dark
I sighed a million sighs
I told a million lies - to myself - to myself

How can we listen to you
When we know your talk is cheap?
How can we ever question
Why we give more and you keep?


How can your empty laughter
Fill a room like ours with joy
When you're only playing with us
Like a child does with a toy?


How can we ever feel the freedom
Or the flame lit by the spark
How can we ever come out even
When reality is stark?


http://www.wolfgangsvault.com/van-morrison/video/wonderful-remark_-1229593273.html

[John]

We must remember that Jeremy Bamber has been locked away in the harsh environment of HM prisons for over 25 years, since he was a young man of just 24 years old.

He's lucky he wasn't hung but then again hanging would be too fast and too good for a child murderer wouldn't it babe?

[chochokeira]

We must remember that Jeremy Bamber has been locked away in the harsh environment of HM prisons for over 25 years, since he was a young man of just 24 years old.

He's lucky he wasn't hung but then again hanging would be too fast and too good for a child murderer wouldn't it babe?

You are sickening.

[John]

Isn't that what we used to do with child murderers nice Keira?   

In fact, just thinking about it the Bamber case is a very good example as to why we shouldn't hang child murderers but if guilty the perfect reason why we should do so and I for one would gladly provide the rope.

[grahameb]

We must remember that Jeremy Bamber has been locked away in the harsh environment of HM prisons for over 25 years, since he was a young man of just 24 years old.

He's lucky he wasn't hung but then again hanging would be too fast and too good for a child murderer wouldn't it babe?

John you have some strange thoughts running through your head. Are you sure that you yourself do not have these latent tendencies of blood thirsty violence deep within your heart? I'm worried about you. Do you think you ought to see a psychiatrist before these worrying feelings manifest themselves and you begin to murder potential child murderers?

[curiousessex]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWFCvXNAlPA

Why do you think Jeremy says THE gun around 00:37. That has always puzzled me.

Back to the original question in the thread.

A possible explanation for Jeremy saying THE gun as opposed to A gun - By using THE it is consistent with Jeremy apparently leaving a loaded gun in the kitchen before he left on the previous evening. THE gun is consistent with that account.

With Nevill allegedly choosing to use THE gun would imply that Nevill had noticed Jeremy had left a loaded gun in the kitchen. Otherwise Jeremy would not have known to which gun Nevill was referring. It was Jeremy who by his own admission allegedly left THE gun in the kitchen.

If Nevill had noticed THE gun left loaded in the kitchen why did Nevill not put it away and secure it having earlier in the evening had a heated alleged discussion with Sheila in which it was allegedly suggested that her children should be fostered. - Afterall, I am sure Nevill would have known Sheila had a history of mental ilness.

[grahameb]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWFCvXNAlPA

Why do you think Jeremy says THE gun around 00:37. That has always puzzled me.

Back to the original question in the thread.

A possible explanation for Jeremy saying THE gun as opposed to A gun - By using THE it is consistent with Jeremy apparently leaving a loaded gun in the kitchen before he left on the previous evening. THE gun is consistent with that account.

With Nevill allegedly choosing to use THE gun would imply that Nevill had noticed Jeremy had left a loaded gun in the kitchen. Otherwise Jeremy would not have known to which gun Nevill was referring. It was Jeremy who by his own admission allegedly left THE gun in the kitchen.

If Nevill had noticed THE gun left loaded in the kitchen why did Nevill not put it away and secure it having earlier in the evening had a heated alleged discussion with Sheila in which it was allegedly suggested that her children should be fostered. - Afterall, I am sure Nevill would have known Sheila had a history of mental ilness.

Good points. Worth considering.

[Tyler]

If Jeremy had indeed left the gun on the kitchen table as he originally said,then Im sure someone would have put it away.The table appeared to be set ready for breakfast.However,if Jeremy left the gun on the settle in the scullery,as he now remembers,then it is possible that nobody noticed it?Gun on the kitchen table statement,it seems credible that  a very upset Sheila could have grabbed  it impulsively and gone beserk.Gun out in the scullery statement,not so sure.To go looking for the gun shows premeditation and Im wondering if it would have been more likely that she would have gone to the gun cupboard for a shotgun,rather than opt for a rifle that she had probably never fired before,due to it being a very new addition to Nevilles gun collection?

[curiousessex]

The recent Crimes that shocked Britain documentary showed Jeremy leaving the gun on the kitchen table.

Then again it also gave the impression that Jeremy rang the Police as soon as he received an alleged call from Nevill. This is not true as confirmed by Jeremy in his first interviews whether they be as a witness or as a suspect. Jeremy took time to look up the telephone number for Chelmsford Police Station as opposed to dialling 999 and in some reports there are claims he also rang Julie at this time.

[ngb1066]

If Jeremy had indeed left the gun on the kitchen table as he originally said,then Im sure someone would have put it away.The table appeared to be set ready for breakfast.However,if Jeremy left the gun on the settle in the scullery,as he now remembers,then it is possible that nobody noticed it?Gun on the kitchen table statement,it seems credible that  a very upset Sheila could have grabbed  it impulsively and gone beserk.Gun out in the scullery statement,not so sure.To go looking for the gun shows premeditation and Im wondering if it would have been more likely that she would have gone to the gun cupboard for a shotgun,rather than opt for a rifle that she had probably never fired before,due to it being a very new addition to Nevilles gun collection?

I think is unlikely that Sheila would have selected a shotgun rather than a rifle.  Nevill's double barrelled 12 bore shotgun shown in some of the photographs posted on this site was a far heavier weapon than the rifle.  It appears to have an extended stock, which Nevill will have required as a very tall man with long arms.  It would therefore have been very difficult for Sheila to mount the shotgun to her shoulder easily and the recoil would have been considerable.  Sheila would have been aware of this from her life on the farm.  There is the further problem with the shotgun that it could only fire two shots before requiring reloading, and the first shot would have awoken everyone in the house.  If this was premediated the rifle was the natural choice.   

[Tyler]

I see what you mean. I think she would have had to pass through the scullery on route to the gun cupboard anyway.

CuriousEssex,I think Jeremy is a little confused as to where he actually left the gun.He has often mentioned the kitchen table,but now mentions the settle in the scullery.The Crimes that shook Britain documentry was fairly good,I thought,but wasnt totally portrayed acurately.Do you remenber it showing Sheila having a vocal argument with her parents? Yet Jeremy says that when his parents put it to Sheila about possible fostering arrangements,that she just sat there,staring into space.

[curiousessex]

I see what you mean. I think she would have had to pass through the scullery on route to the gun cupboard anyway.

CuriousEssex,I think Jeremy is a little confused as to where he actually left the gun.He has often mentioned the kitchen table,but now mentions the settle in the scullery.The Crimes that shook Britain documentry was fairly good,I thought,but wasnt totally portrayed acurately.Do you remenber it showing Sheila having a vocal argument with her parents? Yet Jeremy says that when his parents put it to Sheila about possible fostering arrangements,that she just sat there,staring into space.

Yes I agree the documentary did not describe events accurately but then again, in my opinion, its purpose was to cast doubt on a convinction and as such had bias which is fair enough. However, in such circumstances I do beleive it needs to be convincing.