Kitchen telephone

[Jane]

I've said this before,that an engaged tone is a different from a tone where the handset is off the cradle. If it was off the hook mid-call,then an engaged tone would be heard by the caller trying to ring.
Therefore,an engaged tone would have proved that someone from within WHF had been trying to ring.

Why is it different?  A call can't be made without lifting a handset from a cradle. I've left a handset off the cradle or haven't replaced it properly. A voice would tell me -for a specified time- to replace the handset, but it didn't go on indefinitely.

[lookout]

Why is it different?  A call can't be made without lifting a handset from a cradle. I've left a handset off the cradle or haven't replaced it properly. A voice would tell me -for a specified time- to replace the handset, but it didn't go on indefinitely.

When the handset was left off it wouldn't emit a dialing tone if it had just been used,it would be a wailing tone until the operator spoke. It wouldn't have given off an engaged tone. An engaged tone is what you get when trying to ring someone who's already engaged in conversation.

[Caroline]

When the handset was left off it wouldn't emit a dialing tone if it had just been used,it would be a wailing tone until the operator spoke. It wouldn't have given off an engaged tone. An engaged tone is what you get when trying to ring someone who's already engaged in conversation.

We have been through this before - this didn't happen on the old exchanges. http://www.seg.co.uk/telecomm/automat1.htm

[lookout]

We have been through this before - this didn't happen on the old exchanges. http://www.seg.co.uk/telecomm/automat1.htm

I know we've been through it before,umpteen times. I've actually quoted the old exchanges ( Strowger/Plessey/Marconi ) It's bugging me because I remember the old system back in the 80's.

[Reader]

A caller would have heard an engaged tone when trying to get through to a number where the handset was simply off-hook. Any tone audible on the off-hook handset isn't heard by the caller, as the caller hasn't been connected.

[lookout]

Receiver off-hook tone is a series of beeps,NOT an engaged tone. This is displayed on a short Youtube  film of an old dial-up phone.

[Reader]

The off-hook handset may beep for a while, but the caller who dials to it receives the usual engaged tone and doesn't know the precise reason for the tone.

[lookout]

I would imagine that each company is different when it comes to the tone or length of time it goes on for,usually between 3 to 5 minutes.
The older operators would distinguish between an engaged line and one which is off the hook. Of course no calls can be made to another phone which remains off the hook.
I still maintain that you don't get an engaged tone with a phone which is off the hook.
An engaged call simply means that whoever you were trying to call was already engaged in conversation. The only person who would have known,was the operator. The analogue system would have picked up an off-hook line and reported it as a fault if it had gone on long enough,but obviously in this case there'd been no fault as the operator tested the line and heard a dog barking.

[lookout]

Other phones in the farmhouse would also have been de-activated if one was off the hook.This may have been purposely done so that no phones could be used.

[Caroline]

Receiver off-hook tone is a series of beeps,NOT an engaged tone. This is displayed on a short Youtube  film of an old dial-up phone.

No, off the hook was just the engaged tone!

[Caroline]

I would imagine that each company is different when it comes to the tone or length of time it goes on for,usually between 3 to 5 minutes.
The older operators would distinguish between an engaged line and one which is off the hook. Of course no calls can be made to another phone which remains off the hook.
I still maintain that you don't get an engaged tone with a phone which is off the hook.
An engaged call simply means that whoever you were trying to call was already engaged in conversation. The only person who would have known,was the operator. The analogue system would have picked up an off-hook line and reported it as a fault if it had gone on long enough,but obviously in this case there'd been no fault as the operator tested the line and heard a dog barking.

The was no distinction in tone or West would have been able to tell if the phone was off the hook or a call was under way. The operator had to break into the line to tell if it was off the hook or not! What you have written above is completely wrong.The exchange was unmanned so why would have reported a fault? No sure what you mean about 'each company being different'? There were no other companies providing phone service back then.

[Jane]

No, off the hook was just the engaged tone!

Wouldn't you have thought this subject had been done to death? You even spoke with the guy who was in charge of the system at the time and posted what he'd said yet STILL there seems to be an ongoing dispute. Hey Ho! Thus is ever the way of forums, I guess.

[Caroline]

The tone was distinguishable in LATER systems.

http://www.seg.co.uk/telecomm/automat1.htm

Progress Tones

With manual switching systems, there had always been an operator to advise the caller of the current status. Having removed the need for an operator, a system was required to indicate call progress to the caller. A series of distinctive tones was developed which were produced by a machine called a Ring Generator. The ring generator was entirely electromechanical; different cadences and tones were produced by rotating cams connected to a generator. As well as generating the tones, the Ring Generator machine also provided timed pulses which were used by various processes throughout the exchange. The progress tones produced were as follows :

Dial Tone (DT). This is a 33 c/s continuous note and is applied to the line after the subscriber has lifted his handset and the switching equipment has allocated him an available outlet for this call to proceed. There would have been a physical limit on the number of calls an exchange could handle so if all equipment was already in use, the subscriber would not get dial tone. The actual pitch of the dial Tone varied from exchange to exchange depending on the adjustment of the ring generator.

Busy Tone (BT). A higher pitched note of 400 c/s interrupted to give a cadence of 0.75 seconds on, 0.75 seconds off. Busy tone indicated either that the called subscriber is already off-hook (busy) or that the route to the called subscriber is congested. In later systems, a slightly different cadence was introduced in order to distinguish between these two scenarios.

Number Unobtainable Tone (NUT). Identical pitch to the busy tone but continuous. This tone is used to indicate that a number is out of service, faulty or that a spare line has been dialled.

Ring Tone (RT). A tone of 133c/s which interrupted in the same cadence as the ring current which rings the telephone's bell at the called party's end : 0.4 seconds on, 0.2 seconds off.

[Caroline]

Wouldn't you have thought this subject had been done to death? You even spoke with the guy who was in charge of the system at the time and posted what he'd said yet STILL there seems to be an ongoing dispute. Hey Ho! Thus is ever the way of forums, I guess.

There is enough information out there to find out how the Stowger exchanges worked. Malden was one of the last to be updated .

[lookout]

I don't care that this has been" done to death ". In the 80's/90's,I lived in a ( 3 storey ) house where 4 phones worked from the same line,this is how I know what's what regarding tones etc and uses.
I can only add that the systems must have differed from an area which was 200+ miles away.