Kitchen telephone

[guest2181]

Seeing is believing and Bill couldn't even decide if he knew Taff Jones or not. Alarm bells!

And he didn't know that a C1 form is a two ply carbon duplicate form.

[Adam]

I would like to say when Mark Williams Thomas was in touch with me on a regular basis re the TV documentary he often sent me stuff and asked me not to post certain stuff on the open forum

I would never have gone against his wishes

Is that the 2012 documentary just before the CCRC application ?

Not sure why he would ask for things to be kept private when he is simultaneously making a documentary on what the CCRC application is going to be on.

[Jane]

That's not true
Again!!!

I seem to recall that Bill once said he knew him, then at a later date,m said he'd once seen him/seen him once, which in my book,no more constitutes 'knowing' someone, than does the fact of someone lying, on ONE proven occasion, render them a pathological liar.

[David1819]

Anyway how are  you getting on with the 20 pieces of forensic evidence from the COA. Showing Sheila did not fire a rifle ?

Oh yes. You have posted a picture of a clean, bloodless, undamaged foot.

Then again, Julie did identify the twins.

 

"Enigmas have no solution. Drawing upon the overall umbrella of events surrounding the crime and the multitude of players and events, paint the entire affair as too complex to solve. This causes those otherwise following the matter to begin to loose interest more quickly without having to address the actual issues."

[Adam]

"Enigmas have no solution. Drawing upon the overall umbrella of events surrounding the crime and the multitude of players and events, paint the entire affair as too complex to solve. This causes those otherwise following the matter to begin to loose interest more quickly without having to address the actual issues."

So that's how you are getting on with the  COA's 20 pieces of forensic evidence that show Sheila didn't fire a rifle 26 times, reload twice & fight a big man.

Then again it's only been 32 years.

[JackieD]

I seem to recall that Bill once said he knew him, then at a later date,m said he'd once seen him/seen him once, which in my book,no more constitutes 'knowing' someone, than does the fact of someone lying, on ONE proven occasion, render them a pathological liar.

Shall I make this crystal clear for you Jane. If something bad happened to a work colleague I could say I knew that person but I might have only seen this person once .  I could also know stuff about this person because we work in the same business

Explain how this is being a liar?

[JackieD]

Is that the 2012 documentary just before the CCRC application ?

Not sure why he would ask for things to be kept private when he is simultaneously making a documentary on what the CCRC application is going to be on.

Well he did, that is a fact and Mark Williams Thomas was happy for me to copy in NGB who can confirm that if you are calling me a liar

Mark did a lot of work on that case that has not been made available to the general public like you

[susan]

Shall I make this crystal clear for you Jane. If something bad happened to a work colleague I could say I knew that person but I might have only seen this person once .  I could also know stuff about this person because we work in the same business

Explain how this is being a liar?

Jackie I believe Bill met Taff once

[Adam]

Well he did, that is a fact and Mark Williams Thomas was happy for me to copy in NGB who can confirm that if you are calling me a liar

Mark did a lot of work on that case that has not been made available to the general public like you

Just strange that the only reason given on this forum on why information cannot be posted on here is 'it would give the crown more time to prepare'. Yet Mark Williams Thomas made a documentary on what the CCRC will be given.

[mike tesko]

I believe that the state of the farmhouse phone altered during the course of the incident at whf, in the following manner:-

(1) - the phone was on the kitchen worktop with its handset on its cradle/receiver

(2) - Neville Bamber called Jeremy, call was cut short, receiver possibly depressed, to get a dialling tone

(3) - Jeremy tried to ring Neville back, but kept getting engaged tone

Jeremy kept getting engaged tone because Neville had decided to call the police and was using the farmhouse phone which Neville had used to call Jeremy..

(4) - Neville phoned police, subject of Malcom Bonnetts 3.26am C6 phone log, hence why phone engaged when Jeremy called Neville

Neville called police via an exchange line link

Jeremy tried to ring Witham police station but got no response

Jeremy called Julie Mugford to tell her there was something wrong at home, she told him to go back to bed..

the call to police by Neville at around 3.26am, got terminated for whatever reason and the handset left off the hook, displaying a dialling

(5) - PC West checked farmhouse phone and found it to be engaged after receiving a separate call from Jeremy Bamber at 3.36am

(6) - Operator checked farmhouse phone at 3.42am, reported phone was off its hook

(7) - phone at farm became engaged, possibly making a 999 call

phone remained engaged for up to 8/9 minutes or even longer

(8) - Operator checked farmhouse phone at 3.56am, reported phone was off its hook

Operator found phone at farm off its hook, as described

(9) - phone at farmhouse became engaged at 5.47am

possible request from someone still alive inside the farmhouse for ambulances to be brought to the scene to help the injured, wounded, and dying

(10) - Operator switched phone line at farmhouse to police using the 999 system

two ambulances arrive at the scene (7am), one for use and to go immediately to the house, the second ambulance to remàin parked up in nearby Pages Lane on standby.

As a gesture of goodwill, Sheila placed the anshuzt rifle at the first floor box room window, to show that she was preparing to surrender herself to the police who wete surrounding the farmhouse.

Audio recording made of entire eavesdrop, including entry into the farmhouse, and the shooting incident involving Sheila in the kitchen which was reported as a suicide

(11) - requested that 999 open line be closed down at 7.47am, after only two of the five bodies had been found...

In conjunction with these events, various lights had been turned off and then on, in different rooms of the farmhouse downstairs and upstairs by someone who was still very much alive by the time armed police forced entry into the house at 7.30am!!

[Jane]

Shall I make this crystal clear for you Jane. If something bad happened to a work colleague I could say I knew that person but I might have only seen this person once .  I could also know stuff about this person because we work in the same business

Explain how this is being a liar?

Oh, I'm willing to bet you do know "stuff" about those you work with -work places are generally dens of gossip- but whether they've shared it with you, or others have passed it to you, or it's simply what you think you know, are very different things. Personally, I wouldn't be arrogant enough to claim I knew anyone I'd only met once.

Don't know what you're implying with the question.

[Jane]

I believe that the state of the farmhouse phone altered during the course of the incident at whf, in the following manner:-

(1) - the phone was on the kitchen worktop with its handset on its cradle/receiver

(2) - Neville Bamber called Jeremy, call was cut short, receiver possibly depressed, to get a dialling tone

(3) - Jeremy tried to ring Neville back, but kept getting engaged tone

Jeremy kept getting engaged tone because Neville had decided to call the police and was using the farmhouse phone which Neville had used to call Jeremy..

(4) - Neville phoned police, subject of Malcom Bonnetts 3.26am C6 phone log, hence why phone engaged when Jeremy called Neville

Neville called police via an exchange line link

Jeremy tried to ring Witham police station but got no response

Jeremy called Julie Mugford to tell her there was something wrong at home, she told him to go back to bed..

the call to police by Neville at around 3.26am, got terminated for whatever reason and the handset left off the hook, displaying a dialling

(5) - PC West checked farmhouse phone and found it to be engaged after receiving a separate call from Jeremy Bamber at 3.36am

(6) - Operator checked farmhouse phone at 3.42am, reported phone was off its hook

(7) - phone at farm became engaged, possibly making a 999 call

phone remained engaged for up to 8/9 minutes or even longer

( - Operator checked farmhouse phone at 3.56am, reported phone was off its hook

Operator found phone at farm off its hook, as described

(9) - phone at farmhouse became engaged at 5.47am

possible request from someone still alive inside the farmhouse for ambulances to be brought to the scene to help the injured, wounded, and dying

(10) - Operator switched phone line at farmhouse to police using the 999 system

two ambulances arrive at the scene (7am), one for use and to go immediately to the house, the second ambulance to remàin parked up in nearby Pages Lane on standby.

As a gesture of goodwill, Sheila placed the anshuzt rifle at the first floor box room window, to show that she was preparing to surrender herself to the police who wete surrounding the farmhouse.

Audio recording made of entire eavesdrop, including entry into the farmhouse, and the shooting incident involving Sheila in the kitchen which was reported as a suicide

(11) - requested that 999 open line be closed down at 7.47am, after only two of the five bodies had been found...

In conjunction with these events, various lights had been turned off and then on, in different rooms of the farmhouse downstairs and upstairs by someone who was still very much alive by the time armed police forced entry into the house at 7.30am!!

Most of your thoughts are too convoluted for most people to discern, Mike. Maybe that's why so few disagree.

[maggie]

I think people should be wary of having the wool pulled over their eyes, by either argument.

As we can't even agree on an interpretation of the information which IS available, it's really quite difficult to have any faith in a person's interpretation of something which isn't available.

True Harters, there's nothing wrong with a bit of humility from both sides, dontcha think?

[mike tesko]

The real significance of the telephone evidence at the scene, is that it serves to expose the claim that Malcom Bonnetts 3.26am C6 log, and PC Wests 3.36am C1 relate to the same and one and only call made by Jeremy! Well, one of those two calls certainly came from the farmhouse, and Bonnetts C6 log timed at 3.26am,  clearly states that it was a call received by way of the exchange line, and not by the 999 system! Similarly, PC Wests C1 log of Jeremy's call states that it was made also by way of an exchange line call from Jeremy's cottage at 3.36am! What is not in dispute, is that at 5.47am the phone back at the farmhouse had mysteriously become engaged, as opposed to it previously being reported as being off the hook! By 6.08am, the operator switched the line from the farmhouse to the police by way of the 999 system, after which a dog could be heard to be barking in the background back at the house! This eavesdrop was only possible to set up (in those days, in that region) if the line from whf involved a 999 call! The evidence points to the state of the phone at the farm changing from a state of it being off its hook (3.42am), to it becoming engaged (5.47am), and someone dialling 999 to request ambulances, a call which the operator switched directly to the police using the 999 system! The operator may have transferred the link she had to the line at the farmhouse  from a 999 call, by use of a separate exchange line link that she was able to create, enabling those back in the control room to eavesdrop what she could hear simultaneously on her 999 link to the scene!

How and why and by whom has it been proved requested the ambulances? They daren't tell us because to do so means that there was somebody definitely still alive inside the farmhouse by 5.47am when the farm phone changed from being off the hook, into a state of engaged! It became engaged because somebody who was still alive inside the farmhouse at 5.47am, simply dialled 999 and requested ambulances! That call was later transferred by the operator at 6.08am to the police in the control room! This eavesdrop arrangement lasted until 7.47am, when the 999 open line inside the kitchen at the house to the police back in the control room got closed down!

[mike tesko]

The real significance of the telephone evidence at the scene, is that it serves to expose the claim that Malcom Bonnetts 3.26am C6 log, and PC Wests 3.36am C1 relate to the same and one and only call made by Jeremy! Well, one of those two calls certainly came from the farmhouse, and Bonnetts C6 log timed at 3.26am,  clearly states that it was a call received by way of the exchange line, and not by the 999 system! Similarly, PC Wests C1 log of Jeremy's call states that it was made also by way of an exchange line call from Jeremy's cottage at 3.36am! What is not in dispute, is that at 5.47am the phone back at the farmhouse had mysteriously become engaged, as opposed to it previously being reported as being off the hook! By 6.08am, the operator switched the line from the farmhouse to the police by way of the 999 system, after which a dog could be heard to be barking in the background back at the house! This eavesdrop was only possible to set up (in those days, in that region) if the line from whf involved a 999 call! The evidence points to the state of the phone at the farm changing from a state of it being off its hook (3.42am), to it becoming engaged (5.47am), and someone dialling 999 to request ambulances, a call which the operator switched directly to the police using the 999 system! The operator may have transferred the link she had to the line at the farmhouse  from a 999 call, by use of a separate exchange line link that she was able to create, enabling those back in the control room to eavesdrop what she could hear simultaneously on her 999 link to the scene!

How and why and by whom has it been proved requested the ambulances? They daren't tell us because to do so means that there was somebody definitely still alive inside the farmhouse by 5.47am when the farm phone changed from being off the hook, into a state of engaged! It became engaged because somebody who was still alive inside the farmhouse at 5.47am, simply dialled 999 and requested ambulances! That call was later transferred by the operator at 6.08am to the police in the control room! This eavesdrop arrangement lasted until 7.47am, when the 999 open line inside the kitchen at the house to the police back in the control room got closed down!

And then there were all the lights in different rooms downstairs and upstairs being turned off and on, around the same time there was all this compelling telephone evidence, which can only lead to the conclusion that Jeremy Bamber did not kill all his family, or even any of his family, because dead victims can't make phone calls, dead victims can't alter the state of a phone from off the hook into it becoming engaged, and dead victims can't transform an exchange line call from the scene (which is what Neville Bambers 3.26am call had been) into a 999 call requesting ambulances! Somebody who was certainly alive inside the farmhouse at 3.26am , when police received Neville's call, at 5.47am, when the phone altered in state from being off the hook, into it becoming engaged, and it should be quite clear that somebody must have dialled 999 using that same phone so that the operator could patch the call through to the police, as she did so!

Bamber then is not a killer, cops have known for over three decades thàt a 999 call was made from inside the farmhouse which the operator switched through to police at 6.08am, at a time when Jeremy was in the company of at least a dozen police officers outside of the farmhouse! It's called having the perfect alibi...