Author Topic: Mary Mugford & James Richards testimonies. How influenticial were they ?  (Read 4378 times)

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Offline lookout

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Offline Adam

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She was in a relationship with Bamber for a few years; 34 pages isn't a lot really. How could she cover every detail? Would she have been able to recall every detail?

It was 18 months.

The WS was completed straight after she approached the police, so there may been things she forgot to say. Which would be to Bamber's benefit.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline sherlock

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Mary Mugford's court testimony was a real eye opener. It made it clear that Bamber would feel no remorse if June died. I will post it below.

A supporter accused Mary Mugford yesterday of lying under oath but could not explain why Bamber agreed with her in his court testimony. Bamber also testified and has said on other occasions he had a poor relationship with June. For obvious reasons he never said this in such a forthright manner as Mary Mugford. 

James Richards also testified that Bamber told him three times that he "hated his parents". Richards saying Bamber said this with venom. Bamber denied saying this & said Richards & everyone else in court had lied about him. Although Richards had no motive.

The judge asked Bamber why Richards would come to court and say this as well as telling Bamber to speak up as he unconvincingly  accused Richards of lying.

It is a bit of a contradiction as Bamber is agreeing with Mary Mugford & saying himself he had a poor relationship with June, but then disagreeing with James Richards.

As a juror I would find both Mary Mugford & James Richards testimonies very influentical.

In my opinion Mary Mugford had no motive to lie ...

But Jeremy and Sheila both disliked their parents strongly ....

They were both tied to their parents by financial strings ...

I am sure they had some good moments together with their parents ...

It is human nature that Jeremy would emphasise the good times and not the bad ....

He explained on interview his relationship with his mother had been "improving" ....

But because Sheila and Jeremy fundamentally disliked their parents ....

It brings us NO CLOSER to working out was it Jeremy or Sheila ?

Based on their dislike of their parents it was equally likely to have been either of them ....

Do not forget Sheila had some very strange thoughts about June and her children and a coven of evil ....

Offline Adam

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In my opinion Mary Mugford had no motive to lie ...

But Jeremy and Sheila both disliked their parents strongly ....

They were both tied to their parents by financial strings ...

I am sure they had some good moments together with their parents ...

It is human nature that Jeremy would emphasise the good times and not the bad ....

He explained on interview his relationship with his mother had been "improving" ....

But because Sheila and Jeremy fundamentally disliked their parents ....

It brings us NO CLOSER to working out was it Jeremy or Sheila ?

Based on their dislike of their parents it was equally likely to have been either of them ....

Do not forget Sheila had some very strange thoughts about June and her children and a coven of evil ....

James Richards had no reason to lie either.

Bamber was an adult when he told Richards & MM. Not a sulking 9 year old.

Sheila got on well with Nevill & was a loving mother. She also got on fine with June. She was living with them all for a summer holiday.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2017, 11:52:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline sherlock

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James Richards had no reason to lie either.

Bamber was an adult when he told Richards & MM. Not a sulking 9 year old.

Sheila got on well with Nevill & was a loving mother. She also got on fine with June. She was living with them for a summer holiday.

My opinion is that James Richard had no reason to lie ...

But Jeremy and Sheila both hated their parents ....

If it was not for the money do you think Sheila would have visited the Farm often ?

She would not have done ...

Hating their parents does not make Jeremy or Sheila a killer ....

You can not say Sheila had a wonderful relationship with June - she did not ....

Offline Steve_uk

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My opinion is that James Richard had no reason to lie ...

But Jeremy and Sheila both hated their parents ....

If it was not for the money do you think Sheila would have visited the Farm often ?

She would not have done ...

Hating their parents does not make Jeremy or Sheila a killer ....

You can not say Sheila had a wonderful relationship with June - she did not ....
No but hatred is too strong a word. Sheila was exasperated that she couldn't talk to her mother other than on a superficial level, but came to understand her generosity towards the end of her life. After all, that's what her proposed allowance was all about, that they had reached a tacit modus vivendi whereby Sheila would attempt to fall in with some of her mother's wishes, whilst June was trying not to judge too harshly and granted her daughter more financial independence.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2017, 10:43:PM by Steve_uk »

Offline sherlock

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James Richards had no reason to lie either.

Bamber was an adult when he told Richards & MM. Not a sulking 9 year old.

Sheila got on well with Nevill & was a loving mother. She also got on fine with June. She was living with them all for a summer holiday.

He was a teenager - 21 at most - I know 21 year olds that make the average 9 year old seem mature ....

I do not think he was very mature for his age ....

Offline sherlock

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No but hatred is too strong a word. Sheila was exasperated that she couldn't talk to her mother other than on a superficial level, but came to understand her generosity towards the end of her life. After all, that's what her proposed allowance was all about, that they had reached a tacit modus vivendi whereby Sheila would attempt to fall in with some of her mother's wishes, whilst June was trying not to judge too harshly and granted her daughter more financial independence.

This ties in with Jeremy telling the Police that his relationship with June was rough - but that it also had improved ...

June and Jeremy were making an effort to get on better and from what you say so was Sheila - it seems to fit the pattern ....

Offline Steve_uk

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This ties in with Jeremy telling the Police that his relationship with June was rough - but that it also had improved ...

June and Jeremy were making an effort to get on better and from what you say so was Sheila - it seems to fit the pattern ....
It was a façade on Jeremy's part, to lull his parents into a false sense of security so the wills would remain unchanged. Julie, James Richards and Brett Collins knew the score.

Offline Stephanie

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It was a façade on Jeremy's part, to lull his parents into a false sense of security so the wills would remain unchanged. Julie, James Richards and Brett Collins knew the score.

Agreed Steve
“The only people who are mad at you for telling the truth are those people who are living a lie. Keep telling the truth"

Offline Kaldin

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James Richards had no reason to lie either.

Bamber was an adult when he told Richards & MM. Not a sulking 9 year old.

Sheila got on well with Nevill & was a loving mother. She also got on fine with June. She was living with them all for a summer holiday.

She was staying with them for a few days. I don't think that counts as living with them. I daresay that both Jeremy and Sheila had a sort of up and down relationship with their parents - like many people do.

Offline Adam

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He was a teenager - 21 at most - I know 21 year olds that make the average 9 year old seem mature ....

I do not think he was very mature for his age ....

Have you got a source for this ?

I doubt the prosecution would call Richards for something Bamber said 4 years earlier.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

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He was a teenager - 21 at most - I know 21 year olds that make the average 9 year old seem mature ....

I do not think he was very mature for his age ....

Just checked.

Bamber told James Richards he hated his parents in the summer of 1985.

When Bamber was 24 & just before the massacre.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

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Obviously there are at least 6 people who said about Bamber's hatred for his family,  how he could kill them or his post massacre involvement -

Julies 34 WS on Bamber's hatred, resentment, plans & confession.

Mary Mugford's WS & court testimony on Bamber's hatred & resentment during the 18 months leading up to the massacre.

James Richards WS & court testimony about how Bamber repeatedly told him he hated his parents just before the massacre.

David Boutflour who said Bamber said 'I could easily kill my parents'.

Charles Marsden who said Bamber spoke about burning down WHF, which matches Julie's WS.

Liz Rimmington who Bamber told 'only I know what really happened that night'.

'Only I know what really happened that night'.