Police V family

[JackieD]

No the Defence is in denial or you are not cognizant of all the facts leading up to the tragedy.

I have all the facts I need Steve for me to know Jeremy was set up by the relatives, the police and Mugford
It is absolutely crystal clear if you look at the evidence and when Julie is shown in a documentary to be a the greedy prolific liar she is she will have a chance to tell the truth or hideaway from the public forever

She is the key to the truth eventually coming out

[Jane]

I'm just reading Chapter 19 from Carol Ann Lee again and it' s all I can do to face it: it's almost unbearable. I'm trying to find something for the Defence to latch onto, but all I can find is June being in a different mood than the happy one she was in before she went into Vaulty Manor. Maybe it was something Pamela or her mother said, or was Sheila the cause for concern? House painter Michael Horsnell noticed Sheila again on exit and commented:

"Sheila definitely did not look normal..she was walking stiffly like a zombie from a horror movie."

Now I'm no doctor, but surely even if all her medication is out of her system she cannot transform in such a short period of time from such a helpless, static individual to one that overpowers Nevill along with all the other details including reloading a rifle attributed to her.

Steve, possibly you mean Sheila "was in a different mood..............."? Obviously I haven't witnessed what Lookout has, but I have heard some hair raising stories. My own mother in law, when she worked in a care home, was attacked by a lovely benign old lady. Her watch was smashed and one eye was clawed -thankfully it was her glass eye!!!- but there was no warning. I have no idea of this poor lady's medication ie WAS she medicated? Had she hidden her medication? In Sheila's case she COULDN'T avoid her medication. It was in her blood stream.

[Jan]

Jan, it sounds as if you want definitive answers to everything. Supposing she was angry with Colin. It's hypothetical. We can't have convicted killers walking free on hypotheticals. If she was so bad why leave her with the children? The children were visiting their grandparents. What do you think he was going to say? Sheila hasn't spoken for the whole journey so I'm taking the children back? One has to think that Colin had possibly seen her heading for an episode, although it appears she may only have experienced the two we know of, but he doesn't make any comment suggesting this. I've always thought she was deeply depressed...................but perhaps she was just sulking?

 No I am not supposing at all , just giving alternative possibilities .

[Jane]

I have all the facts I need Steve for me to know Jeremy was set up by the relatives, the police and Mugford
It is absolutely crystal clear if you look at the evidence and when Julie is shown in a documentary to be a the greedy prolific liar she is she will have a chance to tell the truth or hideaway from the public forever

She is the key to the truth eventually coming out

Such a shame you don't know the difference between personal opinion and fact. You don't even know the difference between fantasy and fact. "When Julie is shown in a documentary.................."!!!!!!!!!!!!!! IN YOUR DREAMS! I wonder if anyone has told her yet, about your intentions? I can't imagine she'll be shaking in her shoes.

[Steve_uk]

I have all the facts I need Steve for me to know Jeremy was set up by the relatives, the police and Mugford
It is absolutely crystal clear if you look at the evidence and when Julie is shown in a documentary to be a the greedy prolific liar she is she will have a chance to tell the truth or hideaway from the public forever

She is the key to the truth eventually coming out

She is one of the keys you need to unlock Jeremy's cell door, along with an admission from the relatives of falsifying evidence and Police to confess to a cover up. But we're 32 years along the line now. How much longer are you prepared to wait..

[David1819]

Were Sheila's prints on the casings ? If so surely it's game over ?

As you have already discovered, Some are prepared to argue that Jeremy placed the prints on them. 

There is always an absurd argument for guiltards to fall back on.

[Jan]

As you have already discovered, Some are prepared to argue that Jeremy placed the prints on them. 

There is always an absurd argument for guiltards to fall back on.

 I guess that's why it's harder to prove a guilty man innocent than the other way round .

[susan]

There weren't really different accounts of her behaviour. Didn't a nurse notice her hiding behind dark glasses, nervously smoking, averting eye contact, and guessed she was suffering from schizophrenia?

I think you could do with Lookout's help at this point, but alas she is absent. I do hope she is on holiday somewhere convivial and not fallen prey to a Brian Blackwell copycat killer..

Steve Lookout is fine just taking some time off the forum but she will be back when she is ready

[Steve_uk]

As you have already discovered, Some are prepared to argue that Jeremy placed the prints on them. 

There is always an absurd argument for guiltards to fall back on.

But you are prepared to acknowledge that he had access to his sister's hands after death?

[Jan]

Steve Lookout is fine just taking some time off the forum but she will be back when she is ready

Hope so .

[maggie]

There weren't really different accounts of her behaviour. Didn't a nurse notice her hiding behind dark glasses, nervously smoking, averting eye contact, and guessed she was suffering from schizophrenia?

I think you could do with Lookout's help at this point, but alas she is absent. I do hope she is on holiday somewhere convivial and not fallen prey to a Brian Blackwell copycat killer..

I think the fact Sheila was quiet and withdrawn is not a reason to dismiss any chance she had a psychotic attack but is rather a reason to suspect she may have done.   Such behaviour is recognised as a precursor to a psychotic attack.

[Jane]

I think the fact Sheila was quiet and withdrawn is not a reason to dismiss any chance she had a psychotic attack but is rather a reason to suspect she may have done.   Such behaviour is recognised as a precursor to a psychotic attack.

But Sheila was medicated in such a way as to prevent psychotic attacks, therefore the "quiet and withdrawn" could have been depression.

[Caroline]

But Sheila was medicated in such a way as to prevent psychotic attacks, therefore the "quiet and withdrawn" could have been depression.

Or just a side effect of the drug.

[Jane]

Or just a side effect of the drug.

Yup.

[maggie]

But Sheila was medicated in such a way as to prevent psychotic attacks, therefore the "quiet and withdrawn" could have been depression.

I know that was obviously the aim but we are all individuals with our own physiology.  There can never be absolute certainty that a drug like Haloperidol will have the same effect on every person. There is always a margin of error and exceptions to the rule and Sheila had not been taking it for very long, maybe not long enough to be sure of its effectiveness for her.  Therefore there has to be a possibility that the Haloperidol didn't control her psychosis efficiently.  Psychiatric side effect of Haloperidol... Common ... 1% to 10%  ... psychosis.  Hallucinations.
Or I agree an alternative reason may be that she was still been over medicated causing depression, drowsiness and lack of interest.