Police V family

[Lucy522]

Caroline made an interesting comment when the said that, at the beginning, the relatives "wouldn't have known what was what". I think it should be looked at more closely.

The relatives would have been given the information BY the police, that Jeremy had given TO the police. There was no other source of information at that point. What would their initial reaction have been? Shock? Horror? Disbelief? Yes, all of those. Sheila had gone mad? She'd got hold of a gun and killed everyone? That's an awful lot to take on board when they didn't actually know, save from a letter she'd written Ann from hospital in March in which it said something about her being stressed, that she'd been ill. Certainly not MENTALLY ill. Still, I imagine that, at this point they accepted it because they couldn't get their heads round what had happened. I think it likely that the only words which passed between them were those of disbelief.

I believe it likely, that, at the start, any differences they had with Jeremy, would have been put aside. as we ALL would join ranks and pull together in a family crisis. We have Ann being supportive. Offering the hand of friendship. Being there for him. I remain totally convinced that had Jeremy conveyed himself to them as being 100% innocent -indeed, had he BEEN 100% innocent, they'd have believed it. I don't think they doubted what they'd been told until glimpses of Jeremy's behaviours began to suggest that everything may NOT be as it seemed.

For a start, Jeremy rejects offers of help. Did he consult the family over the funeral arrangements -which took place with unseemly haste. Was Colin consulted about what he'd like to happen to Sheila? OK, as her divorced husband he had no legal rights, but as the mother of his children, he arguably had the right to say he wanted them to be together. Jeremy, it seems, did all the arranging as if there were no other family. I think they'd have felt rejected by what he was doing.

I fully accept that everyone grieves differently. Some may appear not to grieve at all. I imagine this may have been how the relatives started to view Jeremy's behaviour. They may have seen their rejected offers of help as meaning that he didn't want them to know what he was planning. That he was deliberately keeping them out of the loop. Effectively, I think they'd have started to feel like the outsiders in their own family. It probably would have been at that point when they started to ask questions. Make comparisons. Notice that Jeremy wasn't telling the truth.  In fact, it's very likely that, in the beginning, they over compensated and made allowances for him because of the circumstances, but as 'outsiders, looking in, hearing, watching, I think there would have been a gradual dawning that it wasn't Sheila who'd been responsible. I don't believe there was ever a unanimous blinding flash of revelation such as Saul experienced on the road to Damascus.

Morning Jane, maybe he didn't ask for help as they hadn't really been around, I think Jeremy would of started to feel aggrieved that the relatives who'd really played no big part in the families lives for a while were going into his parents home and taking what they wanted, it all sounds like a big hug of war ignited by greed on both parts.

[Adam]

No, I'm sure if he used it as a getaway vehicle he wouldn't be that stupid to leave it outside his house?? Nothing was found on that bike at all no mud, blood prints anything, yet it was used to cycle to and from a massacre in the middle of the night across fields, really?

So it's not a coincidence. The police didn't think it was a coincidence either.

Bamber had no chances to put the bike back. He travelled straight back to WHF after returning from the massacre. The police, Julie & the relatives were then at his cottage hours later. He didn't think he would be a suspect, so the bike location was not important.

What evidence would be found on the bike ? It wasn't tested for a long time anyway.

[Adam]

Morning Jane, maybe he didn't ask for help as they hadn't really been around, I think Jeremy would of started to feel aggrieved that the relatives who'd really played no big part in the families lives for a while were going into his parents home and taking what they wanted, it all sounds like a big hug of war ignited by greed on both parts.

What did the relatives take from WHF ?

[Lucy522]

No it's not a coincidence it's not even relevant, Julie herself said she'd asked for a bike! You think bamber would risk riding home on a pedal cycle? Then leaving it outside his back door? It was there before the murders,
And evidence on the bike, tyre tracks, mud to match the fields, blood? But didn't one of the relatives spend days searching for tyre tracks to link the bike as a getaway vehicle "absolutely laughable" oh yes and found nothing

[Lucy522]

What did the relatives take from WHF ?

June's jewellery for a start and hid it in a wardrobe! They wanted her engagement ring which luckily they didn't get, Jeremy wanted the locket and Ann wouldn't give it to him they even took his and Sheila baby teeth that June had kept

[Adam]

No it's not a coincidence it's not even relevant, Julie herself said she'd asked for a bike! You think bamber would risk riding home on a pedal cycle? Then leaving it outside his back door? It was there before the murders,
And evidence on the bike, tyre tracks, mud to match the fields, blood? But didn't one of the relatives spend days searching for tyre tracks to link the bike as a getaway vehicle "absolutely laughable" oh yes and found nothing

Julie thinks she may have suggested a bike may be useful months earlier.

Bamber cycled to and from WHF. You know this as you can't explain how Sheila committed the massacre.

There were three easy cycle routes that passed no dwellings. The evidence of June's bike being brought over just before the massacre shows this.

There is no reason why June would give Bamber her bike. They didn't like each other. So he took it just before the massacre.

[Adam]

June's jewellery for a start and hid it in a wardrobe! They wanted her engagement ring which luckily they didn't get, Jeremy wanted the locket and Ann wouldn't give it to him they even took his and Sheila baby teeth that June had kept

Sheila's & Bamber's baby teeth ? A locket ? They must have been valuble.

What wardrobe ? Why not take it rather than hide it in a wardrobe.

[Lucy522]

Julie thinks she may have suggested a bike may be useful months earlier.

Bamber cycled to and from WHF. You know this as you can't explain how Sheila committed the massacre.

There were three easy cycle routes that passed no dwellings. The evidence of June's bike being brought over just before the massacre shows this.

There is no reason why June would give Bamber her bike. They didn't like each other. So he took it just before the massacre.

So Julie had asked for a bike and June had bought one a short while previous that she didn't get on with.

You don't know he cycled to and from whf there's no evidence to prove that apart from hearsay which is inadmissible

And I'm pretty sure June didn't dislike her child, maybe they had a difficult relationship but more than one person said it had got better, if they hated each other that much why was he having supper with her that night?

[Jane]

Morning Jane, maybe he didn't ask for help as they hadn't really been around, I think Jeremy would of started to feel aggrieved that the relatives who'd really played no big part in the families lives for a while were going into his parents home and taking what they wanted, it all sounds like a big hug of war ignited by greed on both parts.

As I said, Lucy, however many grievances there may be withing families, they're generally put to one side in a crisis. Robert and Pam were brother in law and sister to Nevill and June. Any closeness was MORE likely to have been between Pam and June, and for their sakes I believe the family would have done everything they could to help Jeremy, at least, to get him through the funeral arrangements.

[Lucy522]

Sheila's & Bamber's baby teeth ? A locket ? They must have been valuble.

What wardrobe ? Why not take it rather than hide it in a wardrobe.

It's in one of the books they hid it in a wardrobe as the grandmother hadn't been told yet, can't remember which one, can anyone remember this? It was covered with a sheet

[Adam]

So Julie had asked for a bike and June had bought one a short while previous that she didn't get on with.

You don't know he cycled to and from whf there's no evidence to prove that apart from hearsay which is inadmissible

And I'm pretty sure June didn't dislike her child, maybe they had a difficult relationship but more than one person said it had got better, if they hated each other that much why was he having supper with her that night?

You know why Bamber went to supper.

Bamber cycled to and from WHF. He didn't drive or walk. The bike was brought to his cottage just before the massacre.

Bamber & June had a terrible relationship. Threads created.

[Jane]

June's jewellery for a start and hid it in a wardrobe! They wanted her engagement ring which luckily they didn't get, Jeremy wanted the locket and Ann wouldn't give it to him they even took his and Sheila baby teeth that June had kept

Whether or not it's apocryphal, it's been said that Jeremy gave instructions for June's jewellery to be cremated with her, but it was removed and given to Basil Cock. I believe that Jeremy did end up keeping the baby teeth. What he may have done with them is anyone's guess.

[Adam]

June didn't like Julie or approve with her relationship with Bamber. She also didn't speak to Bamber.

So there is no chance June would have given Bamber the bike. Bamber had no choice but to take it just before the massacre.

[Jane]

June didn't like Julie or approve with her relationship with Bamber. She also didn't speak to Bamber.

So there is no chance June would have given Bamber the bike. Bamber had no choice but to take it just before the massacre.

Interesting. Do we have any record of a conversation Jeremy may -or not?- have had with June regarding him 'borrowing' the bike for Julie?

[lookout]

What did the relatives take from WHF ?

Jeremy's freedom !