Reason to believe cops shot Sheila, and how her blood ended up inside Silencer!

[David1819]

Miller had not seen the body until 9.30am anyway. He notes the rifle as being by her right side when its actually on her right side.

This rather crude diagram should make one realise that the position of the rifle in the photos. Is the correct and original location.

[Caroline]

Show evidence.

You mean like your silly pictures> Yeah right! I don't need to show evidence, I'm not trying to convince anyone and you're trying too hard. Mike's diagrams on IA were far superior.

[mike tesko]

That didn't happen.

It did happen, Sheila couldn't have shot herself twice with the use of the same gun, her body couldn't be downstairs between 7.35am and 8.10am, supposedly dead in kitchen after only being shot once by a rifle resting against a first floor box room window, and also be with Sheila's body on the main bedroom floor at one and the same time later on, if Jeremy was the killer! Jeremy Bamber was not the killer of his sister he couldn't have shot her twice and staged her death scene sporting two bullet holes in her neck after 8.10am, since by that stage there were only three bodies upstairs! As soon as Sheila arrived upstairs that total changed to four! At the same time where there had been two bodies in the kitchen upon entry, after 8.10am, there was then only one body!

[mike tesko]

It did happen, Sheila couldn't have shot herself twice with the use of the same gun, her body couldn't be downstairs between 7.35am and 8.10am, supposedly dead in kitchen after only being shot once by a rifle resting against a first floor box room window, and also be with Sheila's body on the main bedroom floor at one and the same time later on, if Jeremy was the killer! Jeremy Bamber was not the killer of his sister he couldn't have shot her twice and staged her death scene sporting two bullet holes in her neck after 8.10am, since by that stage there were only three bodies upstairs! As soon as Sheila arrived upstairs that total changed to four! At the same time where there had been two bodies in the kitchen upon entry, after 8.10am, there was then only one body!

Sheila could not have shot herself twice in the bedroom otherwise the silencer containing her unique blood would have still been fitted to the barrel of the rifle after she killed herself! Furthermore, with the silencer fitted to the barrel of the rifle Sheila could not have self inflicted the first of the two shots across her own throat because the distance between the trigger of the rifle and the flat muzzle end of the silencers end cap was to large preventing the first shot being inflicted by use of it! If Sheila had shot herself, the silencer with her blood inside it would have still been attached to the barrel of the gun after the moment she actually died! Cops wouldn't have removed the silencer in those circumstances until after crime scene photographs had been taken showing the silencer attached to the barrel of the rifle on Sheila's body! The blood in the silencer was accepted as being Sheila's unique blood during the trial, so n this basis it had to have been fitted to the barrel of the gun at the time Sheila was shot and killed! What I'm saying is that the only people who had the opportunity to remove any silencer from any gun at the scene were the police themselves! Police records show that there were only three bodies upstairs by 8.10am, the two bodies already having been accounted for downstairs in the kitchen from as long ago as 7.35am! At some point after 8.10am, Sheila arrived upstairs in the main bedroom, collapsed on her parents bed sporting a solitary bullet wound to her throat! Let's hit the nail on the head, later that same morning DS 'Stan' Jones returned to the scene and collected the very same silencer which had been taken of the gun during 'informatives' that were conducted in the main bedroom between 9am and 10am! 'Stan' Jones recovered the silencer (SBJ/1) from the scene after 11.15am. He was instructed to leave it on 'Taff' Jones desk where it remained until early evening 9 August 1985 when Jones slipped it into the cupboard from where David Boutflour would later find it on the following date?

[Adam]

This rather crude diagram should make one realise that the position of the rifle in the photos. Is the correct and original location.

If the rifle in the photos is in the correct position then the police didn't touch Sheila or the rifle prior to crime scene photos being taken. Which would have been protocol in 1985.

So who pulled Sheila's legs after the second shot ?

[mike tesko]

Miller had not seen the body until 9.30am anyway. He notes the rifle as being by her right side when its actually on her right side.

according to Jones and Clarke Sheila's body was laid on top of the bed alongside the body of June Bamber, with the rifle in-between both bodies on the bed, and Sheila having a bible on her chest! That's what they told Ann Eaton that morning after both officers had visited the main bedroom and seen the bodies of the two females, Sheila only having one bullet hole in her neck by that stage!

[susan]

Sorry I over reacted to something you posted. You have a good knowledge of the case. Have you read CC's book ? That will have a lot of information I won't know.

To create a scenario you just need to know the crime scene inside WHF. Which you do know.

Adam thank you for your advice I do have the book but sadly I have not read it but I will do.  I think Sheila started off in the downstairs bathroom and was shouting and threatening Nevill heard her went downstairs tried to phone Jeremy she heard him and off upstairs she went shot June turned the gun on Nevill who then retreated downstairs to arm himself followed by Sheila and the rest you know.  I think she killed the twins last.  She had a shower put on a clean nightdress belonging to June then shot herself.  I will need to work on this more.

[lookout]

It's not as though Sheila hadn't been known for kicking off in the early hours was it ? Being at WHF was no exception. It had happened at her flat in Maida Vale,so she'd been very unwell during her last weeks.
Phoning her father at all hours just for someone to talk to.
Sheila's non-compliance during the day would have been as a result of a sleepless night and that would have impacted on her drowsy state of mind during the day. After resting and being immobile during the day would then have led to another sleepless night and so it would go on as the sleep pattern was more and more disrupted due to medication.

[Caroline]

Correction. You have no evidence.

What are your eighteen thousand posts in aid of then?

 



 

You're right, I don't have any evidence because I am an individual writing on a forum and not pretending to be the worlds greatest detective. The evidence is already there, gathered by others. I do however have an opinion, an opinion just like you but you're deluded enough to think your opinion is evidence - it's not - it's your OPINION. You're deluded enough to try and rid the forum of people who don't rate you - Scipio being one of them. Did you actually answer my question about which mod gave you IP info?

Mike's drawings are better because they actually show something, yours are just you trying to look as though you have some kind of professional ability but you actually got the idea from Mike and Myster - copying again! 

[Jane]

Taken literally it could only mean one of the following:

He knew they would find everyone injured or dead because he had foreknowledge of Sheila's intentions and/or he assisted her in some way - i.e. concocted a reason to leave a loaded weapon out. 

He had a 'second sight' intuition that things had gone badly inside the farmhouse, since receiving his father's call.

What it most likely means is that his emotions were vacillating between hope, fear and dread. One minute he thought the worst - the next minute he reassured himself that things might not be that bad.  We all do it in times of great stress - for example - a  GP referral to a specialist because of a lump or mole or whatever.

Yet with "second sight" intuition" he waited the best part of half an hour before contacting the police about a phone call which "second sight" could have warned him was coming?

[lookout]

I don't think that anyone could have foreseen what was going to happen,as part of you doesn't believe it's possible. Had everyone involved known Sheila's personal and behavioural background then perhaps a clearer understanding of what took place would have been easier to accept.

[Caroline]

Taken literally it could only mean one of the following:

He knew they would find everyone injured or dead because he had foreknowledge of Sheila's intentions and/or he assisted her in some way - i.e. concocted a reason to leave a loaded weapon out. 

He had a 'second sight' intuition that things had gone badly inside the farmhouse, since receiving his father's call.

What it most likely means is that his emotions were vacillating between hope, fear and dread. One minute he thought the worst - the next minute he reassured himself that things might not be that bad.  We all do it in times of great stress - for example - a  GP referral to a specialist because of a lump or mole or whatever.

He had first sight, because he knew.

[Jane]

It's not as though Sheila hadn't been known for kicking off in the early hours was it ? Being at WHF was no exception. It had happened at her flat in Maida Vale,so she'd been very unwell during her last weeks.
Phoning her father at all hours just for someone to talk to.
Sheila's non-compliance during the day would have been as a result of a sleepless night and that would have impacted on her drowsy state of mind during the day. After resting and being immobile during the day would then have led to another sleepless night and so it would go on as the sleep pattern was more and more disrupted due to medication.

Sheila HAD been known for "kicking off" in the times prior to her being on medication. Is there evidence that she was phoning Nevill "at all hours for someone to talk to" after discharging herself from hospital in March 1985?

[Adam]

Adam thank you for your advice I do have the book but sadly I have not read it but I will do.  I think Sheila started off in the downstairs bathroom and was shouting and threatening Nevill heard her went downstairs tried to phone Jeremy she heard him and off upstairs she went shot June turned the gun on Nevill who then retreated downstairs to arm himself followed by Sheila and the rest you know.  I think she killed the twins last.  She had a shower put on a clean nightdress belonging to June then shot herself.  I will need to work on this more.

Thank you. You agree with most other people that Nevill did not ring the police.

Why do you think Sheila took the rifle and locked herself in the downstairs bathroom, & started to shout & threaten ? If she wanted to committ murder/suicide with the rifle she had taken,  she just needed to go upstairs with it before anyone woke.

If locking herself in the bathroom & waking Nevill meant she had no plans to kill anyone, what made her change her mind ?  Sheila wouldn't know Nevill was ringing Bamber as she was behind a closed door.

There is a slim chance Sheila would hear Nevill say 11 words to Bamber. If still in the downstairs bathroom. I don't know why that would upset Sheila so much to go upstairs & start shooting.  However if it did, Nevill could stop her as the call went dead after those 11 words. 

Did Nevill not see or hear Sheila go upstairs with the rifle ? He was in the kitchen ringing Bamber. Sheila was making enough noise earlier behind a downstairs closed door to wake him. Although no one else woke. So very doubtful Sheila went upstairs silently.

If Nevill had either heard upstairs shots or seen Sheila go upstairs with the rifle, why was he so unprotected when going upstairs. Sheila was allowed 4 close range shots to Nevill's face.

[susan]

Adam will reply when I get back from my walk