Jeremy's assumptions about his sister's meds and relatives' opinions

[Lucy522]

I think he was anxious to get the whole thing over with after shooting over twenty times already, he was probably on a cocktail of narcotics from cannabis to cocaine so on a euphoric high and just wanted to dispatch Sheila as quickly as possible before she had time to worry about the twins. He had to use the Anschutz because it tallied with the uncorroborated story from his mouth about leaving the weapon on the settle.

I agree Roch, everyone says Jeremy was a good shot that's why they were all on target, but, he couldn't shoot a willing victim sitting in front of him at point blank range?  Really....

[Adam]

It's in carol Ann lees book near the beginning, they were shopping for trousers for the boys, the man said she didn't speak and recoiled in horror when on leaving she turned round and smiled with bright Red lipstick smeared all over her teeth,

So she couldn't even put lipstick on her lips.

[Adam]

I agree Roch, everyone says Jeremy was a good shot that's why they were all on target, but, he couldn't shoot a willing victim sitting in front of him at point blank range?  Really....

Sheila couldn't shoot herself twice. Bamber accepted this.

[Steve_uk]

If this was the case why was she seen earlier that day skipping along the lane in high spirits with the twins? If she was that incapable of doing anything then why was she left in charge of 2 small children.?

I haven't been able to corroborate this incident. There's evidence from Len Foakes that she appeared normal, but contrary evidence from house painter Michael Horsnell at Vaulty Manor that she had severe mobility problems, as Adam has stated.

[Lucy522]

I agree the twins may have woken while Nevill was trying to control a 'crazy' Sheila & ringing Bamber & the fifth furthest away police station. But they didn't.

There is no reason why the twins would wake from Bamber. The only noise was downstairs in a big house.

No it wasn't June was shot 7 times she'd got out of bed after she'd been shot and had bruises from hitting the door frame, and we are supposed to believe Sheila didn't even scream? Was totally compliant and over sedated to the point she made no noise? Let alone June, she must of been in horrendous pain and the shooter would of been upstairs at that point to

[nugnug]

I know. All the 60+ side effects would make it impossible for Sheila to commit the massacre. Whether she was suffering from 20 or 30 of them.

only if she was suffring from all of them and theres no real evdence she was.

davids allready qauted a long list of killers who were on the same medication if it was impossble for her to comit murder while taking it surely it should of been imposble for them as well.

[Lucy522]

Sheila couldn't shoot herself twice. Bamber accepted this.

Yes she could it's not unheard of in suicides

[Jane]

If she was that sedated and didn't have any interest in anything, the last thing she would of done was go shopping surely!

Lucy, it's not a question of what she would -or not- have done. That implies that she'd have made a choice. I think it was a question of her just going with the flow. I don't see her as spaced out as Adam would like to have us believe she was but I don't see her as making many decisions for herself, either. Especially when she was with her parents as it's quite natural for us to return to being the children we'd once been when we're with them.

[Lucy522]

I haven't been able to corroborate this incident. There's evidence from Len Foakes that she appeared normal, but contrary evidence from house painter Michael Horsnell at Vaulty Manor that she had severe mobility problems, as Adam has stated.

The geese walking incident?

[Lucy522]

So she couldn't even put lipstick on her lips.

Clearly she could, but it was all Over her teeth as well, she obviously didn't care what she looked like

[guest2181]

I can't see how they would of slept through Hartley, I have 4 boys under 11 and we wake in the night my husband and I know not to flush the toilet as that alone wakes them? Why go for the twins first though?, they were the least threat in the house? No one went in that room after they were murdered as there was no blood smears/spatters on the carpet so not one of the adults checked them during this? Why not? They surely would of been first port of call for any caring mother/grandparent?

All kids are different I guess, but my little one will wake at the flush of a loo also.

We'll never know, but I think that there are scenarios that would fit with the twins being the first victims, there may then never have been an opportunity for one of the adults to check on them.

[Lucy522]

Lucy, it's not a question of what she would -or not- have done. That implies that she'd have made a choice. I think it was a question of her just going with the flow. I don't see her as spaced out as Adam would like to have us believe she was but I don't see her as making many decisions for herself, either. Especially when she was with her parents as it's quite natural for us to return to being the children we'd once been when we're with them.

Agreed, It would seem she was very compliant with June, I see what you mean by the projection, I think June was very worried about herself and Sheila.

[Adam]

only if she was suffring from all of them and theres no real evdence she was.

davids allready qauted a long list of killers who were on the same medication if it was impossble for her to comit murder while taking it surely it should of been imposble for them as well.

  So Sheila had to be sufferring from every one of the 60+ side effects, to not be able to commit the massacre. Not just 20 or 30.

Thanks Nugs.

[susan]

Yes she could it's not unheard of in suicides

Lucy I have researched the two shot suicide and it does happen.  Tyler a member here posted an excellent link on this but I cannot find it

[Jane]

No it wasn't June was shot 7 times she'd got out of bed after she'd been shot and had bruises from hitting the door frame, and we are supposed to believe Sheila didn't even scream? Was totally compliant and over sedated to the point she made no noise? Let alone June, she must of been in horrendous pain and the shooter would of been upstairs at that point to

Lucy, who has said that "we're supposed to believe"?  NONE of us has ANY idea of how the carnage unfolded.