Murders at White House Farm by Carol Ann Lee.

[Caroline]

Hi Caroline.  First of all let me make it clear where I'm coming from in this particular debate.  I think JB was framed, however there is a considerable number of people who think that he massacred the family; therefore in order to accommodate this I have to be open to the pro-guilt point of view.  I thought the best way to do this was to read a pro-guilt book and discuss the contents here.  I chose Carol Ann Lee's book because it is certainly pro-guilt as far as JB is concerned and that you recommended it to me some months ago.  Can you complain that I now challenge you on it's contents?

This forum has no supporting web pages of any worth regarding the case, the existing archives are poor, there is no information Wiki either; therefore resourcing information is going to be difficult.  There is a great opportunity for supporting web pages on the basis of a for and against argument since this site is unique in accommodating both arguments; however it would be up to the more knowledgeable and dedicated posters, like yourself, to get together and make that work.  If you do that then I would find it a lot easier to source infomation myself without having to ask for it.

Now is that not a constructive comment?

Hoots

If you think Bamber was framed, that's up to you, I'm not here to change anyone's mind. Personally I think it's screamingly obvious that he's guilty once to get passed the myths that have been perpetuated in books, by the TV and on the internet.

I am not sure how you cn say the archives here are poor? Are you looking in the right place?

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1119.0.html

[Caroline]

Well Ok. lets try another one.  There is this from the kindle location 4781 of CAL'S book referring to a conversation between JB and JM.

"‘I’ve had a wonderful day at work,’ she told him. ‘How was your day?’ ‘As best as can be expected,’ he replied, explaining that he had spent the entire day inside the tractor with the sun beating down. ‘You sound pissed off,’ she said. Jeremy told her, ‘I’ve been thinking on the tractor and the crime will have to be tonight or never.’" 

I've often wondered what was so special about the night of 6th to the 7th of August 1985.  Was it the last time that the family would all be together, would there never be another opportunity like that particular night to commit the crime?

Hoots!

Sheila didn't stay at the farm that often and the twins were living with Colin, that week was ideal for such a plan.

[Roch]

Well Ok. lets try another one.  There is this from the kindle location 4781 of CAL'S book referring to a conversation between JB and JM.

"‘I’ve had a wonderful day at work,’ she told him. ‘How was your day?’ ‘As best as can be expected,’ he replied, explaining that he had spent the entire day inside the tractor with the sun beating down. ‘You sound pissed off,’ she said. Jeremy told her, ‘I’ve been thinking on the tractor and the crime will have to be tonight or never.’" 

I've often wondered what was so special about the night of 6th to the 7th of August 1985.  Was it the last time that the family would all be together, would there never be another opportunity like that particular night to commit the crime?

Hoots!

Presumably, she believed the 2K hitman must have been on standby, simply waiting by the phone - ready to strike with minimal notice.

[Caroline]

Presumably, she believed the 2K hitman must have been on standby, simply waiting by the phone - ready to strike with minimal notice.

She didn't know the hit man story at that point.

[Roch]

She didn't know the hit man story at that point.

But she did (allegedly) take it in afterwards - implying that she therefore must have believed Jeremy could click his fingers at a moment's notice.

[Caroline]

But she did (allegedly) take it in afterwards - implying that she therefore must have believed Jeremy could click his fingers at a moment's notice.

And?

[Roch]

And?

Well it's hardly a credible scenario is it?  After being pissed off in heat of the tractor, he decided 'it's tonight' -  and the hitman just happens to be ready to go at a moment's notice. 

[guest1199]

If you think Bamber was framed, that's up to you, I'm not here to change anyone's mind. Personally I think it's screamingly obvious that he's guilty once to get passed the myths that have been perpetuated in books, by the TV and on the internet.

I am not sure how you cn say the archives here are poor? Are you looking in the right place?

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1119.0.html

If your not here to change anyone's mind, what on earth are you doing here? I'm perfectly open to having my mind changed if it so screaming obvious, that's what I want you and others to do.  If you can't debate with an open mind then there's no point in debating at all is there?  As far as supporting web pages go I suppose I've been a bit spoiled by the excellent Injustice in Perugia Website/forum and it supporting wiki that was put together by members.  It has to be said also that the True justice for Meredith site was equally well presented and maintained. This is a pale shadow of what could be achieved. 

[guest2181]

Well it's hardly a credible scenario is it?  After being pissed off in heat of the tractor, he decided 'it's tonight' -  and the hitman just happens to be ready to go at a moment's notice.

I'm not sure where you are heading with this, it's pretty clear that there are three main possibilities relating to Julie coming forward. In no particular order:

1. Julie is just telling lies, either off her own back or coerced by others.
2. Whilst JB had told her about the murders, she didn't believe him and thought he was making things up, even after the incident.
3. She knew all about it and was happy to stay with JB anyway.

[Jane]

Well Ok. lets try another one.  There is this from the kindle location 4781 of CAL'S book referring to a conversation between JB and JM.

"‘I’ve had a wonderful day at work,’ she told him. ‘How was your day?’ ‘As best as can be expected,’ he replied, explaining that he had spent the entire day inside the tractor with the sun beating down. ‘You sound pissed off,’ she said. Jeremy told her, ‘I’ve been thinking on the tractor and the crime will have to be tonight or never.’" 

I've often wondered what was so special about the night of 6th to the 7th of August 1985.  Was it the last time that the family would all be together, would there never be another opportunity like that particular night to commit the crime?

Hoots!

Sounds as if he'd been psyching himself up to put a pre-laid plan into action, doesn't it? That night MAY have been his last chance. They were due to leave on the Thursday.

[Caroline]

Well it's hardly a credible scenario is it?  After being pissed off in heat of the tractor, he decided 'it's tonight' -  and the hitman just happens to be ready to go at a moment's notice.

How does that matter? Whether or not in hindsight it is credible or not, it's what he told Julie.

[Jane]

But she did (allegedly) take it in afterwards - implying that she therefore must have believed Jeremy could click his fingers at a moment's notice.

Or just for a second, clinging to the hope that he hadn't done it?

[Steve_uk]

Hi Caroline.  First of all let me make it clear where I'm coming from in this particular debate.  I think JB was framed, however there is a considerable number of people who think that he massacred the family; therefore in order to accommodate this I have to be open to the pro-guilt point of view.  I thought the best way to do this was to read a pro-guilt book and discuss the contents here.  I chose Carol Ann Lee's book because it is certainly pro-guilt as far as JB is concerned and that you recommended it to me some months ago.  Can you complain that I now challenge you on it's contents?

This forum has no supporting web pages of any worth regarding the case, the existing archives are poor, there is no information Wiki either; therefore resourcing information is going to be difficult.  There is a great opportunity for supporting web pages on the basis of a for and against argument since this site is unique in accommodating both arguments; however it would be up to the more knowledgeable and dedicated posters, like yourself, to get together and make that work.  If you do that then I would find it a lot easier to source infomation myself without having to ask for it.

Now is that not a constructive comment?

Hoots

If you want propaganda then I suggest you peruse the official Jeremy Bamber site. If you read the Statements and Transcripts library here you should find most of what you're looking for, and that is raw data from which you can make up your own mind.

[Caroline]

If your not here to change anyone's mind, what on earth are you doing here? I'm perfectly open to having my mind changed if it so screaming obvious, that's what I want you and others to do.  If you can't debate with an open mind then there's no point in debating at all is there?  As far as supporting web pages go I suppose I've been a bit spoiled by the excellent Injustice in Perugia Website/forum and it supporting wiki that was put together by members.  It has to be said also that the True justice for Meredith site was equally well presented and maintained. This is a pale shadow of what could be achieved.

I may be being unfair to you and if so, I apologise. If you are here for serious debate and not to take the piss then I will try and answer you posts as best I can. Your remarks yesterday about not being quick enough to respond annoyed me because I read the board on and off throughout the day, I'm not here on a permanent basis (as some idiots believe). Why am I here, it's habit forming I guess but even though I believe he's 100% guilty, I'm still interested in the case and often people post things that just aren't true and where possible, I point it out. I'm sure you would rather read facts than fiction?

Also Maggie, I found out that someone did See Sheila skipping up the lane - not a myth. It was one of the Foakes's.

[guest1199]

Sounds as if he'd been psyching himself up to put a pre-laid plan into action, doesn't it? That night MAY have been his last chance. They were due to leave on the Thursday.

Hmmm! That's interesting, both you and Caroline have mentioned JB having a "plan" and a "pre-laid plan".  So if you were JB sitting on the tractor that afternoon what would your plan be?

Hoots!