Murders at White House Farm by Carol Ann Lee.

[Roch]

No, I don't agree at all - it would have been accidental and I certainly don't think it would warrant the framing of Bamber. Yes, there might have been an enquiry but given the circumstances, a killer was killed during a siege situation, no careers needed to have been ruined. However, if it is hard for you to believe that Bamber would try and pass off two shots to Sheila as suicide, why would you believe the police would?

However the two shots happened, Bamber would have little choice in going ahead with his plan as you say what other option would he have'?

This is missing the point though.  If the police decide to not bother mentioning the second shot - they unwittingly walk in to a Pandora's box situation further down the line.  Because by that time, they have gone to inquest regarding Sheila having been killed by a single gunshot wound and haven't told the press or relatives or Jeremy what happened.  Clearly the reason why he blamed the raid team was because he was given the impression somebody was still alive before they went in.  That hope was extinguished after they came out.  This is suggestive that somebody (probably Sheila) was indeed alive until the raid commenced.

Once they had dug a hole for themselves, they ended up playing in to the chief vulture's hands.  Bobby was out and out going to protect the interests of his own brood - not the wishes of June and Nevill.

[Caroline]

How on earth would Sheila have sustained a second GSW if she was already dead for some hours as Caroline alleges?

Hoots!

This is silly 

[Adam]

I believe that supporters on Bamber forums believe debate between supporters & guilters is better than no debate at all. It means Bamber is at least still being talked about.

So ridiculous suggestions are made. Such as EP shot Sheila with  the murder weapon after she was prononced dead. Which is the latest in a long line.

This is similar to the CT's view that any publicity is better than none. So bake offs & grave side readings are publicised.

[guest1199]

Not that I can answer for him and I certainly wasn't there BUT, we don't know what angle he was looking from, whether he was bent over her or how close he was. He said he only noticed one shot and I don't think anyone is suggesting that she received the second shot after the doc left. Or maybe they are? Good luck with that particular theory! 

Caroline. I'm not asking others, I'm asking you.  You are emphatically saying there were two GSW at 8.44am  Dr. Craig says clearly one GSW.  I am asking you to resolve that anomaly since you are the one who emphatically states 2 GSW at 8.44am.

Hoots

[Caroline]

This is missing the point though.  If the police decide to not bother mentioning the second shot - they unwittingly walk in to a Pandora's box situation further down the line.  Because by that time, they have gone to inquest regarding Sheila having been killed by a single gunshot wound and haven't told the press or relatives or Jeremy what happened.  Clearly the reason why he blamed the raid team was because he was given the impression somebody was still alive before they went in.  That hope was extinguished after they came out.  This is suggestive that somebody (probably Sheila) was indeed alive until the raid commenced.

Once they had dug a hole for themselves, they ended up playing in to the chief vulture's hands.  Bobby was out and out going to protect the interests of his own boord - not the wishes of June and Nevill.

It's not missing the point at all, it's the SAME point you're making. Once two shots are present you can't go back. Clearly the reason he blamed the raid team was simply bad acting on his behalf. Point to where he claimed in his statements or interviews that he was made to believe someone was alive inside the farmhouse? He has only made such claims since the comment 'in conversation with a 'person' inside the farm' has been highlighted from Bonnett's log. Of course there is a distinction made on the log between 'farm' and 'house'. It goes on to state that 'Challenge to 'persons' inside the HOUSE was met with no response'. It is clear that the PERSON inside the farm was Jeremy and the PERSONS inside the house were the family.

[Caroline]

Caroline. I'm not asking others, I'm asking you.  You are emphatically saying there were two GSW at 8.44am  Dr. Craig says clearly one GSW.  I am asking you to resolve that anomaly since you are the one who emphatically states 2 GSW at 8.44am.

Hoots

Asking me why Craig only noticed one? How the bloody hell would I know and I am NOT the only one who is saying there were two shots before Craig saw Sheila! That is the official stance. You are bent on making a conspiracy out of it - good luck with that! 

[Jane]

Caroline. I'm not asking others, I'm asking you.  You are emphatically saying there were two GSW at 8.44am  Dr. Craig says clearly one GSW.  I am asking you to resolve that anomaly since you are the one who emphatically states 2 GSW at 8.44am.

Hoots

Was not "One GSW" followed by the word "Then"? Implying that the other was seen later?

[Steve_uk]

This is missing the point though.  If the police decide to not bother mentioning the second shot - they unwittingly walk in to a Pandora's box situation further down the line.  Because by that time, they have gone to inquest regarding Sheila having been killed by a single gunshot wound and haven't told the press or relatives or Jeremy what happened.  Clearly the reason why he blamed the raid team was because he was given the impression somebody was still alive before they went in.  That hope was extinguished after they came out.  This is suggestive that somebody (probably Sheila) was indeed alive until the raid commenced.

Once they had dug a hole for themselves, they ended up playing in to the chief vulture's hands.  Bobby was out and out going to protect the interests of his own brood - not the wishes of June and Nevill.

Well hindsight is a great thing, but DS Stan Jones wasn't taken in by his play-acting, neither were former pupils and teachers at Gresham's when they saw the funeral on television.

[Jane]

This is missing the point though.  If the police decide to not bother mentioning the second shot - they unwittingly walk in to a Pandora's box situation further down the line.  Because by that time, they have gone to inquest regarding Sheila having been killed by a single gunshot wound and haven't told the press or relatives or Jeremy what happened.  Clearly the reason why he blamed the raid team was because he was given the impression somebody was still alive before they went in.  That hope was extinguished after they came out.  This is suggestive that somebody (probably Sheila) was indeed alive until the raid commenced.

Once they had dug a hole for themselves, they ended up playing in to the chief vulture's hands.  Bobby was out and out going to protect the interests of his own brood - not the wishes of June and Nevill.

As I said earlier. Jeremy accused the police of shooting Sheila. This COULD have been an attempt to cover up his bungle in having to shoot her twice.

[guest1199]

You either believe Roch. That it was practice for an expert to say every dead body had been shot once.

Believe the expert made a mistake & there were two gun shots.

Believe the expert was correct & EP shot Sheila with the murder weapon after she had been prononced dead.

Which is it ?

The first point is unbelievable, The second is scarcely credible, With reference to the third, why would the cops want to despatch another shot into an already dead body, if they did do it?  If they didn't do it who did?

Hoots!

[Caroline]

The first point is unbelievable, The second is scarcely credible, With reference to the third, why would the cops want to despatch another shot into an already dead body, if they did do it?  If they didn't do it who did?

Hoots!

For goodness sake! Collins was the first raid team member to enter the bedroom and this was BEFORE Craig saw Sheila. His statement shows that he saw INJURIES to Sheila's neck and chin.

[Adam]

The first point is unbelievable, The second is scarcely credible, With reference to the third, why would the cops want to despatch another shot into an already dead body, if they did do it?  If they didn't do it who did?

Hoots!

It's got to be one of the three. You can't say you don't believe any.

Saying Sheila was shot a second time after being prononced dead, but not by EP is taking a conspiracy too far.

Hopefully Roch will provide his source saying it was police protocol for a crime scene expert to say all victims had been shot once.

[Adam]

For goodness sake! Collins was the first raid team member to enter the bedroom and this was BEFORE Craig saw Sheila. His statement shows that he saw INJURIES to Sheila's neck and chin.

Hopefully TomG & Roch will now accept Sheila had been shot twice prior to being prononced dead.

Roch actually agrees with this. Saying it was police proticol for scene of crimes officers to say everyone had been shot once. Hopefully he will provide his source soon.

Saying EP shot Sheila with the murder weapon after she had been prononced dead is a non starter. But as stated, supporters have created discussion on the case.

[Caroline]

Hopefully TomG & Roch will now accept Sheila had been shot twice prior to being prononced dead.

Roch actually agrees with this. Saying it was police proticol for scene of crimes officers to say everyone had been shot once.

Saying EP shot Sheila with the murder weapon after she had been prononced dead is a non starter. But as stated, supporters have created discussion on the case.

Craig did only mention one shot for each of the victims if TomG would care to read his statement  http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1187.0.html - he wasn't there to describe the state of the bodies, just to pronounce death and to give a reason.

[Adam]

Craig did only mention one shot for each of the victims if TomG would care to read his statement  http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1187.0.html - he wasn't there to describe the state of the bodies, just to pronounce death and to give a reason.

Thanks. That's the end of the matter.