Murders at White House Farm by Carol Ann Lee.

[Roch]

That sounds like you're saying he did it on purpose, but either way, once it was botched, he couldn't turn back could he? It was done and he's have to proceed. The best that he could do was to make them believe he was elsewhere - hence the phone call.

What I was trying to say was -  that if he had botched her suicide by failing to kill her outright - then that's a MASSIVE blunder in his plans.  Quite why he would think she would immediately die from one shot is beyond me anyway - as he had just pumped multiple shots in to all the other victims!  So where is his reasoning going - by thinking he could finish off Sheila as the last victim with just one shot? Again - it doesn't add-up.

I guess they could have said it happened while they tried to get the gun off her, but that's not for me to explain given that I don't think the police did shoot her - Jeremy did.

Aah but this is getting to the crux of the matter though.  You have consistently argued that hypothetically, the police would have no need to explain or hide the fact that they shot Sheila in the course of their duty.

However it's not that simple is it? If it's the murder weapon that actually killed her - it's not that simple to explain.  Yes - they could say struggle etc.  Nevertheless - those in the know about tactical firearms operations and police tactics might raise an eyebrow or two.

[Steve_uk]

What I was trying to say was -  that if he had botched her suicide by failing to kill her outright - then that's a MASSIVE blunder in his plans.  Quite why he would think she would immediately die from one shot is beyond me anyway - as he had just pumped multiple shots in to all the other victims!  ? Again - it doesn't add-up. So where is his reasoning going - by thinking he could finish off Sheila as the last victim with just one shot

Aah but this is getting to the crux of the matter though.  You have consistently argued that hypothetically, the police would have no need to explain or hide the fact that they shot Sheila in the course of their duty.

However it's not that simple is it? If it's the murder weapon that actually killed her - it's not that simple to explain.  Yes - they could say struggle etc.  Nevertheless - those in the know about tactical firearms operations and police tactics might raise an eyebrow or two.

If the bullet goes through the brain wouldn't death be instantaneous? He was on an adrenaline high anyway after despatching four people so he could drive a Porsche. Strange that there were no more bullets left in the gun..

[Adam]

Bamber could have killed Sheila with one shot. The second shot was instantly fatal. He was just around an inch away from a fatal shot with the first bullet. 

As mentioned today on red, he may have been looking to complete the massacre without reloading. This was possible. However it didn't happen but there was no going back.

[Roch]

If the bullet goes through the brain wouldn't death be instantaneous? He was on an adrenaline high anyway after despatching four people so he could drive a Porsche. Strange that there were no more bullets left in the gun..

Then why didn't he aim the only shot intended for her at her brain?  It wasn't travelling towards her brain was it?

[guest1199]

If there was one gun shot wound when prononced dead, why would the police shoot her again ? She was dead.

I don't know how the second GSW was inflicted, did I say it was the cops?  If not who was it? There is no doubt what Carol Ann Lee is saying; one GSW at the time of pronouncement of death by a Police surgeon of 30 years experience.  I'm the rookie asking posters with tons of knowledge. What happened next?

[Adam]

Then why didn't he aim the only shot intended for her at her brain?  It wasn't travelling towards her brain was it?

Because he's not an expert gun shot.

Are you saying the police fired the second bullet with the rifle Sheila was holding. After Sheila was prononced dead. 

[Adam]

I don't know how the second GSW was inflicted, did I say it was the cops?  If not who was it? There is no doubt what Carol Ann Lee is saying; one GSW at the time of pronouncement of death by a Police surgeon of 30 years experience.  I'm the rookie asking posters with tons of knowledge. What happened next?

Perhaps it was Bamber who fired the second shot. 

Supporters are trying to say EP shot Sheila. Not with their own high tech rifles. But with Sheila's own rifle. After she was prononced dead !

This is because it was impossible for Sheila to shoot herself twice.

[Steve_uk]

Then why didn't he aim the only shot intended for her at her brain?  It wasn't travelling towards her brain was it?

I think he just got carried away in the excitement and probably shot as she turned her neck away. Whether he was wearing his mask or Sheila recognized her attacker, or he spun her a quick story that there had been intruders he was in a rush as he didn't want her asking questions, neither did he wish to hang around White House Farm.

[guest1199]

Perhaps it was Bamber.

How could it have been Bamber after the pronouncement of death at 8.44?

Hoots!

[Roch]

Because he's not an expert gun shot.

Since when have you argued on here that Bamber wasn't a crack-shot?   Since today? 

Are you saying the police fired the second bullet with the rifle Sheila was holding.  After Sheila was pronounced dead.

No I am not saying that definitely took place.  Personally though - I leave it open as an option.  Just like I leave it open as an option - that Jeremy may have had foreknowledge of Sheila's plans - and assisted her by concocting a reason to leave a loaded weapon out.

[Roch]

I think he just got carried away in the excitement and probably shot as she turned her neck away. Whether he was wearing his mask or Sheila recognized her attacker, or he spun her a quick story that there had been intruders he was in a rush as he didn't want her asking questions, neither did he wish to hang around White House Farm.

Steve, sorry mate but the REAL evidence says otherwise.  No need for all this flannel about Jeremy wearing scuba masks and leading a zombie-like Sheila to her death... and then missing the target!

[Adam]

How could it have been Bamber after the pronouncement of death at 8.44?

Hoots!

So EP shot her with the massacre rifle. After Sheila had been prononced dead.

This issue is a waste of time. It's universally agreed Sheila was shot twice. An expert at the time mistakedly putting in his notes it was one shot is conspiracy theory making of the highest order.

[Caroline]

How could it have been Bamber after the pronouncement of death at 8.44?

Hoots!

Eh? That's when she was pronounced dead, not when she died! The doc couldn't know the exact time of death given that he wasn't there.

[Roch]

So EP shot her with the massacre rifle. After Sheila had been prononced dead.

This issue is a waste of time. It's universally agreed Sheila was shot twice. An expert at the time mistakedly putting in his notes it was one shot is conspiracy theory making of the highest order.

The doc only mentioned one gunshot wound for all the victims I think.  It was probably practice to do so.

[Adam]

Since when have you argued on here that Bamber wasn't a crack-shot?   Since today? 

No I am not saying that definitely took place.  Personally though - I leave it open as an option.  Just like I leave it open as an option - that Jeremy may have had foreknowledge of Sheila's plans - and assisted her by concocting a reason to leave a loaded weapon out.

Bamber testified he was proficient with the murder weapon. However I don't believe he had killed anyone prior to the massacre with one shot. As mentioned, the first shot was effective but not fatal. So what ?

Ok. You believe EP may have shot Sheila after she had been pronounced dead. That is fine.