Murders at White House Farm by Carol Ann Lee.

[Caroline]

Thinking again Jane
Let's try sticking to facts
Maybe you could try googling suicide notes

You have no idea what you're talking about - 'googling suicide notes'? Try googling xxxxx'!

[Caroline]

Back to the book, the author refers to cop doc Dr Craig as "Seeing ‘only one gunshot wound at that stage’, he felt reasonably satisfied that she had taken her own life. He pronounced both women dead at 8.44am and the twins at 8.50am" So, the only wound he saw must have been the top fatal wound or he wouldn't have pronounced her dead, with the other non-fatal wound not yet inflicted. This is all a bit strange since I thought it was the other way around.  Please advise.

Hoots!

Completely wrong, both wounds were fatal, the top immediately so. But why would he not have pronounced her dead when she was dead? AND even if one of the wounds were non fatal, how would he know simply from looking at it? She was dead and he saw a hole in her neck - doesn't take a genius.

[Caroline]

Jeremy told some of the hired hands that if anything happened to his parents he would just  "pack up and sell the whole thing off". It's strange that a few months later something did happen (I can't help but think of the remark he made on that first morning-"well I didn't know what was going to happen, did I?"). It's this infantile idiot savant intellect that pervades the case and which makes Jeremy so difficult to analyse. But you're in good company Jackie: he fooled Nevill for a time, he fooled Pamela, Thomas and Betty Howie, and tragically Julie. But it's quite clear to me that his new-found enthusiasm for anything farm-related was solely an expedient for the future time he could be rid of it all.

Excellent post Steve.

[Caroline]

What are you trying to tell me?  Did he see the lower non-fatal wound and mistakenly pronounce Sheila dead, or did he correctly pronounce Sheila dead on the evidence of the top wound, with the non-fatal wound yet to be inflicted? Or did he see only one wound, even though being a cop surgeon for 30 years there were actually two?

Hoots!

She didn't have a non fatal wound and he didn't mistakenly pronounce her dead - she was dead!

[Roch]

Nevill was sixty-one years old, had recently been ill and had put in long hours at the Farm. He had been shot with pellets in his head. Is it any wonder that there was no physical contact with his son daughter?

Yes, I do but by your argument, you don't know he's innocent!

If she is aware of deliberate concealment of specific evidence - that pertains to Sheila having committed the killings - then it is a safe bet that she knows he's innocent.   

Things have to be looked at in context.  In this case - they were only able to successfully argue it was Jeremy by concealing the evidence that clearly showed it was actually Sheila. 

[Adam]

If she is aware of deliberate concealment of specific evidence - that pertains to Sheila having committed the killings - then it is a safe bet that she knows he's innocent.   

Things have to be looked at in context.  In this case - they were only able to successfully argue it was Jeremy by concealing the evidence that clearly showed it was actually Sheila.

What evidence was concealed ?

[Steve_uk]

What are you trying to tell me?  Did he see the lower non-fatal wound and mistakenly pronounce Sheila dead, or did he correctly pronounce Sheila dead on the evidence of the top wound, with the non-fatal wound yet to be inflicted? Or did he see only one wound, even though being a cop surgeon for 30 years there were actually two?

Hoots!

I'm saying that the guy was past it, which is why he missed the second wound. He was a GP, not a pathologist. He did state that all deaths had occurred within a short space of one another, which excludes any fanciful theories about Sheila scampering up the back staircase, which pervade this site from time to time.

[guest1199]

Completely wrong, both wounds were fatal, the top immediately so. But why would he not have pronounced her dead when she was dead? AND even if one of the wounds were non fatal, how would he know simply from looking at it? She was dead and he saw a hole in her neck - doesn't take a genius.

Sorry! I'm still a bit perplexed with this being the rookie that I am, and not nearly as clued up as you.  Craig is quoted in the book as "Seeing only one gunshot wound at that stage" I wanted to know what one it was.  You are referring to "both wounds"; however Dr. Craig sees only one, which one does he see? 

[guest1199]

She didn't have a non fatal wound and he didn't mistakenly pronounce her dead - she was dead!

Can you refer me to source material that indicates conclusively that the lower wound would have definitively fatal regardless of the upper wound?

Hoots!

[JackiePreece]

Jeremy told some of the hired hands that if anything happened to his parents he would just  "pack up and sell the whole thing off". It's strange that a few months later something did happen (I can't help but think of the remark he made on that first morning-"well I didn't know what was going to happen, did I?"). It's this infantile idiot savant intellect that pervades the case and which makes Jeremy so difficult to analyse. But you're in good company Jackie: he fooled Nevill for a time, he fooled Pamela, Thomas and Betty Howie, and tragically Julie. But it's quite clear to me that his new-found enthusiasm for anything farm-related was solely an expedient for the future time he could be rid of it all.

You're xxxxxxxxxx
Your posts are xxxxxxxxx
He had a wonderful job, his own space and money in the bank

This JB person you describe is in your own mind and not reality because I have spent years researching him from people he grew up with

Jeremy Bambers only crime is being naive and stupid

I doubt JB would ever have been convicted if he hadn't made one stupid comment at trial

The relatives were laughing all the way to the bank

But one day someone will regret their actions regarding the silencer

[JackiePreece]

It's not just the physical act of reloading. It's running downstairs to reload and having the time to do that and incapacitate Nevill further and additionally cut off a telephone call, all from a young woman who could barely walk straight..

I will go along with Ngb that Sheila was capable

[Steve_uk]

You're xxxxxxxxxx
Your posts are xxxxxxxxx
He had a wonderful job, his own space and money in the bank

This JB person you describe is in your own mind and not reality because I have spent years researching him from people he grew up with

Jeremy Bambers only crime is being naive and stupid

I doubt JB would ever have been convicted if he hadn't made one stupid comment at trial

The relatives were laughing all the way to the bank

But one day someone will regret their actions regarding the silencer

No he had a job he loathed, surrounded by people he hated and who had controlled every second of his life almost from the cradle. He blamed June for sending him away to Gresham's at eight years old, she was unable to communicate with him and express her love openly because of her illness, but he had to conform to her standards of morality, which is why he blamed her for driving Suzette away. Nobody could fail to get along with Nevill, but he was still the boss, which Jeremy resented, though as he told Julie on the way to Pevensey: "I do miss the old man occasionally." He saw an opportunity to start anew and put people he thought would be better off dead out of their misery, and availed himself of this aperture to commit such heinous crimes he's really better off dead himself now, instead of going through the daily motions of his charade with a few diehard acolytes like yourself in tow.

[JackiePreece]

She was in Lewisham.

Well if he was guilty she would certainly have given the police a good idea what shoes or boots Jeremy might have been wearing the night of the murders which would most likely still have evidence on them

[Caroline]

If she is aware of deliberate concealment of specific evidence - that pertains to Sheila having committed the killings - then it is a safe bet that she knows he's innocent.   

Things have to be looked at in context.  In this case - they were only able to successfully argue it was Jeremy by concealing the evidence that clearly showed it was actually Sheila.

If evidence was ever concealed, how would she or anyone else be party to it? Like you said yourself, there isn't an envelope with 'concealed evidence' written on it. And like I said, I think your new vigour is simply to try and readdress a conceived imbalance on the forum.

Arguing that evidence exists without evidence to back it up, isn't a strong argument. For your theory to be correct, not only did EP conspire but the conspiracy went from brass tacks up to senior level, spreading to the civilian section and the lab workers. And even today 30 years on the echelons are working to keep one Jeremy Bamber (farmer) in prison. But it's OK, this theory doesn't need a 'why' - it just is? 

[Caroline]

Well if he was guilty she would certainly have given the police a good idea what shoes or boots Jeremy might have been wearing the night of the murders which would most likely still have evidence on them

Now this is laughable! How the hell would she know what he was wearing?