Murders at White House Farm by Carol Ann Lee.

[Jane]

According to one of the firearms team,once inside WHF,he told BT to close down the open line which had been used for a 999 call-----so said BT.
It's written on one of the wireless logs which can be seen in the archives.

Perhaps you could find it. There are numerous statements form TFG.

[Caroline]

Perhaps you could find it. There are numerous statements form TFG.

The logs are here http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,732.0.html - no such comment exists.

[Scales]

Please explain how she managed to shoot herself twice when the first bullet smashed two vertebrae. Moving her head/adjusting her arms/fixing the rifle in place/stretching to pull the trigger for the second shot -and probably with her mouth cavity filling with blood- with a wound which although wasn't instantly fatal, was certainly mortal? Hmm!

Easily firstly a semi automatic discharges rounds with a squeeze of the trigger and nerve reaction can cause this, at Deepcut military barracks a soldier there committed suicide with an SA80 5.56 rifle he shot himself twice, a 22 is a peashooter, unless its the head/ brain it likely wont be immediately fatal.

[lookout]

The logs are here http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,732.0.html - no such comment exists.

It does,at 07.47.

[Jane]

Easily firstly a semi automatic discharges rounds with a squeeze of the trigger and nerve reaction can cause this, at Deepcut military barracks a soldier there committed suicide with an SA80 5.56 rifle he shot himself twice, a 22 is a peashooter, unless its the head/ brain it likely wont be immediately fatal.

But Sheila wasn't a trained soldier. She was a very girly girl.

[Caroline]

It does,at 07.47.

  that's the open line they were listening in on! 

[Steve_uk]

Recently read this and was very impressed by it, I do have a few questions about certain parts the first one that springs to mind is at Chapter 18 first paragraph the author recounts a private conversation between Barbara Wilson and Neville Bamber.

Barbara states "I must have caught him at a vulnerable time" she then goes on to say that he told her something that she has never told anyone else since, she says Neville may have been hoping she went to the Police "but I had no proof".

The author as far as I can see dose not explain what was said surely it could be very important?

As an aside in the book there is an overhead shot of WHF taken the day before the killings ( I cannot seem to find the image online), in it at the top there is a perfectly ploughed field, now I'm no farmer but that field is so perfectly ploughed I'd be interested if Bamber ploughed that, and what a psychologist would make of it.

Also separate from the book, Bambers apparent escape route is interesting he lived 3.5 miles from that farm, over the fields would be impractical, that leaves a road who is going to take the risk of being seen going to a murder and who in their right mind would seriously risk riding back on that road after killing five people?

EDIT, SORRY I GOT THE NAME WRONG, ITS NOW CORRECTED

There's no doubt Nevill had a premonition about a premature death and maybe he hinted to Barbara so that a posthumous record would exist. Both husband and wife were trying to economize due to the cost of renovating Clifton House, and the failure of June to write out personal cheques in her son's favour led to her demise.

There's more on the routes Jeremy might have chosen here:  http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/bicycle

Note on the official site it says Jeremy had watched the television programmes which formed an alibi as they were transmitted, but as far as I can see there was nothing to prevent him from recording them, watching them when he got back and then destroying the video tape. It was the same with the telephone call from White House Farm to Bourtree Cottage, except for that Police took the tapes from Jeremy's answerphone to analyse. Of course they might have proved that there was such a call made, but not who made it.

As for the perfectly ploughed field, it was Jeremy's intention that last year to beat Nevill and June at their own game, namely to pretend to settle down to the farming lifestyle, yet secretly plotting their liquidation. He justified it to himself as mercy killings, and was helped in this by Sheila's second illness in March 1985, June's depression which she was trying hard to conceal, and Nevill's fatigue which gave his son the excuse he needed to finish him off.

[Scales]

Nevill didn't tackle Bamber because a man was shooting bullets in his face.

Bamber didn't have a mark on him because he was padded up. And fighting Nevill who had been shot 4 times. Bamber wasn't tested for a long time.

Why would Sheila give Nevill black eyes, a broken nose and bruises on the arms, head and neck afterwards ?

There is a thread on Nevill's burn marks. Bamber was checking for signs of life.

Why would the family wake if Bamber used a silencer ? The rifle would be impossible to hear behind closed doors.

There is also a thread on the bible. It was part of Bamber staging the scene.

You need to find another scenario as you're one did not match the crime scene. But thanks for trying. A lot of supporters never have. My scenario of how Bamber did it is available upon request.

A woman was shooting him in the face and he did not tackle her either, personally I would have bullrushed the person he was quite capable of it being a relatively fit healthy farmer, he was also a former WW2 man so retreating in the face of danger is quite unexplainable really, whether it was bamber or shelia. You could probable walk through 22 fire if your life depends on it. It seems NB would of had time to either get out of the house or arm himself while the shooting was carrying on, or of course make a phone call.

As to marks, yes body marks may have been coverable but facial or hand marks, no, again NB was a former serviceman punching a man in the face who was attacking him would have been a natural reaction as would using a makeshift weapon, bamber did not have black eyes or a broken nose.

The silencer is the ultimate red herring, it was almost certainly never used.

[Jane]

A woman was shooting him in the face and he did not tackle her either, personally I would have bullrushed the person he was quite capable of it being a relatively fit healthy farmer, he was also a former WW2 man so retreating in the face of danger is quite unexplainable really, whether it was bamber or shelia. You could probable walk through 22 fire if your life depends on it. It seems NB would of had time to either get out of the house or arm himself while the shooting was carrying on, or of course make a phone call.

As to marks, yes body marks may have been coverable but facial or hand marks, no, again NB was a former serviceman punching a man in the face who was attacking him would have been a natural reaction as would using a makeshift weapon, bamber did not have black eyes or a broken nose.

The silencer is the ultimate red herring, it was almost certainly never used.

Jeremy had the benefit of a rifle's length between himself and his father.

[Steve_uk]

A woman was shooting him in the face and he did not tackle her either, personally I would have bullrushed the person he was quite capable of it being a relatively fit healthy farmer, he was also a former WW2 man so retreating in the face of danger is quite unexplainable really, whether it was bamber or shelia. You could probable walk through 22 fire if your life depends on it. It seems NB would of had time to either get out of the house or arm himself while the shooting was carrying on, or of course make a phone call.

As to marks, yes body marks may have been coverable but facial or hand marks, no, again NB was a former serviceman punching a man in the face who was attacking him would have been a natural reaction as would using a makeshift weapon, bamber did not have black eyes or a broken nose.

The silencer is the ultimate red herring, it was almost certainly never used.

If Nevill is anxious about Sheila or even suspecting that she might do harm to herself or others he would never have left the gun in situ that night. The whole episode is a story concocted by Jeremy which could never be verified by another as Jeremy himself knew perfectly well. If Sheila did manage to grab hold of a weapon Nevill's first thought would be to protect his wife and the twins instantly and not waste time on a fool's errand summoning the very person who had reduced him to tears through recent behaviour.

[lookout]

But Sheila wasn't a trained soldier. She was a very girly girl.

A bad-tempered one too !

[Adam]

A woman was shooting him in the face and he did not tackle her either, personally I would have bullrushed the person he was quite capable of it being a relatively fit healthy farmer, he was also a former WW2 man so retreating in the face of danger is quite unexplainable really, whether it was bamber or shelia. You could probable walk through 22 fire if your life depends on it. It seems NB would of had time to either get out of the house or arm himself while the shooting was carrying on, or of course make a phone call.

As to marks, yes body marks may have been coverable but facial or hand marks, no, again NB was a former serviceman punching a man in the face who was attacking him would have been a natural reaction as would using a makeshift weapon, bamber did not have black eyes or a broken nose.

The silencer is the ultimate red herring, it was almost certainly never used.

The 'forensic' evidence is it was human blood in the silencer. Certainly Sheila's according to the judge.

An awake an out of bed Nevill is much more likely to confront Sheila upstairs. Rather than run downstairs to phone Bamber  . Leaving Sheila upstairs with a loaded rifle for several minutes.

It's doubtful Nevill punched Bamber. Nevill had been shot 4 times & was bare footed in pyjamas. Bamber had the rifle which he hit Nevill with. So hard the stock broke.

[Scales]

If Nevill is anxious about Sheila or even suspecting that she might do harm to herself or others he would never have left the gun in situ that night. The whole episode is a story concocted by Jeremy which could never be verified by another as Jeremy himself knew perfectly well. If Sheila did manage to grab hold of a weapon Nevill's first thought would be to protect his wife and the twins instantly and not waste time on a fool's errand summoning the very person who had reduced him to tears through recent behaviour.

It is very odd that bamber left that rifle like that, I mean it was almost like he knew she could actually use it. But the flip side is that bamber would not have known when he came through that window if NB moved it and put it under lock and key, if he had bamber would have had a hell of a dilemma.

[lookout]

that's the open line they were listening in on! 

Left open after a 999 call !

[Steve_uk]

It is very odd that bamber left that rifle like that, I mean it was almost like he knew she could actually use it. But the flip side is that bamber would not have known when he came through that window if NB moved it and put it under lock and key, if he had bamber would have had a hell of a dilemma.

But more likely Bamber knew the rifle wasn't there at all. He probably hid it in the barn for collection later or put it back in the downstairs bathroom or gun cupboard with the same intention.