Gun at first floor window - set to shoot safety of convictions to bits!!

[mike tesko]

They saw it here, they saw it there, they saw the rifle every Blooming where!

 At a box room window one moment, on Shelia's body the next, she was dead downstairs in the kitchen, then upstairs dead again, on the bed then on the bedroom floor, mum's body also on the bed, then moved to the door! A murder, a suicide, two bodies accounted for by 7.37am, a male and a female, Neville and June, or Neville and Sheila? June's death a suicide? Definitely not! So Sheila second body discovered as hers only death which could be a suicide! Yet, in grand scheme of things with Neville's body in kitchen, and June's body at bedroom door, Sheila's body would have been third body discovered, and based on information known by the control room by 7.45am was true, that police were dealing with two bodies at whf, a murder and a suicide, Sheila's body had to have been found before the body of June Bambers was found! If Neville Bambers body had been found first followed by the body of Junes, police would have been dealing with two bodies, a murder, and a murder!!!

By 8.10am, the other three bodies were found upstairs! Five dead in total!

[mike tesko]

They saw it here, they saw it there, they saw the rifle every Blooming where!

 At a box room window one moment, on Shelia's body the next, she was dead downstairs in the kitchen, then upstairs dead again, on the bed then on the bedroom floor, mum's body also on the bed, then moved to the door! A murder, a suicide, two bodies accounted for by 7.37am, a male and a female, Neville and June, or Neville and Sheila? June's death a suicide? Definitely not! So Sheila second body discovered as hers only death which could be a suicide! Yet, in grand scheme of things with Neville's body in kitchen, and June's body at bedroom door, Sheila's body would have been third body discovered, and based on information known by the control room by 7.45am was true, that police were dealing with two bodies at whf, a murder and a suicide, Sheila's body had to have been found before the body of June Bambers was found! If Neville Bambers body had been found first followed by the body of Junes, police would have been dealing with two bodies, a murder, and a murder!!!

By 8.10am, the other three bodies were found upstairs! Five dead in total!

'Oh, what a tangled web they weaved, when they first practiced to deceive'...

[gringo]

They saw it here, they saw it there, they saw the rifle every Blooming where!

 At a box room window one moment, on Shelia's body the next, she was dead downstairs in the kitchen, then upstairs dead again, on the bed then on the bedroom floor, mum's body also on the bed, then moved to the door! A murder, a suicide, two bodies accounted for by 7.37am, a male and a female, Neville and June, or Neville and Sheila? June's death a suicide? Definitely not! So Sheila second body discovered as hers only death which could be a suicide! Yet, in grand scheme of things with Neville's body in kitchen, and June's body at bedroom door, Sheila's body would have been third body discovered, and based on information known by the control room by 7.45am was true, that police were dealing with two bodies at whf, a murder and a suicide, Sheila's body had to have been found before the body of June Bambers was found! If Neville Bambers body had been found first followed by the body of Junes, police would have been dealing with two bodies, a murder, and a murder!!!

By 8.10am, the other three bodies were found upstairs! Five dead in total!

  It also makes the rest of the argument over this issue look ridiculous the more you ponder it, Mike.
     EP's claims about mistaking Neville for a female because of his hair flopping down. Did they also mistake him as having been murdered and committing suicide?
     How could they have been reporting a suicide until they saw Sheila's body?

[Caroline]

  It also makes the rest of the argument over this issue look ridiculous the more you ponder it, Mike.
     EP's claims about mistaking Neville for a female because of his hair flopping down. Did they also mistake him as having been murdered and committing suicide?
     How could they have been reporting a suicide until they saw Sheila's body?

I would love to see what you wrote after being bombarded with messages from another location.

[mike tesko]

  It also makes the rest of the argument over this issue look ridiculous the more you ponder it, Mike.
     EP's claims about mistaking Neville for a female because of his hair flopping down. Did they also mistake him as having been murdered and committing suicide?
     How could they have been reporting a suicide until they saw Sheila's body?

They couldn't report that one of the two bodies they had found was 'a suicide' until they came across Sheila's body!!!

All the other four victims had clearly been murdered!!

[gringo]

I would love to see what you wrote after being bombarded with messages from another location.

   What a pointless comparison. If it was my job to accurately record messages as I received them( or was bombarded with them, if you prefer) then I would do so.
    Given your rather contrived argument on the farm/farmhouse question this is a peculiar argument for you to put forward here.
    It's almost as if it is just a knee jerk reaction from you and not thought through.

[mike tesko]

They couldn't report that one of the two bodies they had found was 'a suicide' until they came across Sheila's body!!!

All the other four victims had clearly been murdered!!

See DS Davidson's COLP I terview notes, he was contacted at his home address, by 'Linda' in the control room and requested to attend the office ASAP because police were dealing with an incident at whf involving two bodies (not three, not four, and not five bodies), he was told, a murder, and a suicide! One of these bodies was a male, and the other body was a female! Now, a murder, and, a suicide!!

The contents of a police radio log confirms the reporting of one dead male, and also confirms one dead female 7.38am, so there is independent evidence available regarding what 'Linda' told DS Davidson at around 7.45am, and vice versa, by reference to the timed police radio log entries timed at 7.37am, and 7.38am, two bodies, a male and a female, one male, one female, a murder, and a suicide - the other three remaining bodies yet undiscovered until 8.10am, and not a minute sooner!!

[gringo]

They couldn't report that one of the two bodies they had found was 'a suicide' until they came across Sheila's body!!!

All the other four victims had clearly been murdered!!

  Had this log been available to the jury, I find it difficult to believe the jury would have bought the rather weak arguments that we are now expected to believe.

[lookout]

Yet according to Inspector Norman,that at 07.38,in his update,that 1 ( one ) dead male and 1 ( one ) dead female had been found on entry into the premises. This is clear and precise re.firearms team ?
Surely this is proof enough that either had shot each other ? And that one or the other of them had also been responsible for killing the other adult and the two children upstairs.

[Caroline]

   What a pointless comparison. If it was my job to accurately record messages as I received them( or was bombarded with them, if you prefer) then I would do so.
    Given your rather contrived argument on the farm/farmhouse question this is a peculiar argument for you to put forward here.
    It's almost as if it is just a knee jerk reaction from you and not thought through.

No it's it's not peculiar or knee jerk at all - the log makes a CLEAR distinction between 'farm' and 'house' - at no point in those two sentences is 'farmhouse' mentioned.

They did do their job, they wrote messages as they received them. It was a confusing time, they didn't realise that a bunch of conspiracy theorists or people who hates the police would scrutinise their every word at a later date.

[gringo]

No it's it's not peculiar or knee jerk at all - the log makes a CLEAR distinction between 'farm' and 'house' - at no point in those two sentences is 'farmhouse' mentioned.

They did do their job, they wrote messages as they received them. It was a confusing time, they didn't realise that a bunch of conspiracy theorists or people who hates the police would scrutinise their every word at a later date.

  There is a clear distinction between male and female. Also between murder and suicide but you are willing to accept these as understandable mistakes.
    If it was a mistake then what a lucky coincidence that EP were able to foresee that Sheila was dead and that she had committed suicide before even finding her.
     
   

[mike tesko]

No it's it's not peculiar or knee jerk at all - the log makes a CLEAR distinction between 'farm' and 'house' - at no point in those two sentences is 'farmhouse' mentioned.

They did do their job, they wrote messages as they received them. It was a confusing time, they didn't realise that a bunch of conspiracy theorists or people who hates the police would scrutinise their every word at a later date.

It's not about a bunch of conspiracy theorists or people who hates the police would scrutinise their every word at a later date! It's about trying to establish the truth! How can the only rifle found to be present at a first floor box room window have been with Sheila Caffells body on the main bedroom floor, at one and the same time? More disturbingly, how can Sheila's body be even upstairs by 7.37am to 8.10am, in order for the gun at the box room window to be on her body in the main bedroom, if her body wasn't even upstairs by that stage!

[Caroline]

  There is a clear distinction between male and female. Also between murder and suicide but you are willing to accept these as understandable mistakes.
    If it was a mistake then what a lucky coincidence that EP were able to foresee that Sheila was dead and that she had committed suicide before even finding her.
     
 

Eh? But they didn't foresee anything, they didn't SEE things as is written, various people have written on the logs, so information was coming in from various sources. It wasn't until the TFG could clarify everything after the fact that a clear and accurate picture could be gleamed. 

For what reason would the TFG and EP have for keeping a fact such as 'Sheila being initially alive' to themselves? Don't tell me the 'something happened' without having any idea what that 'something' could be, because even if the police shot Sheila (which I don't believe for one second), she was a hostile suspect and they couldn't be blamed if the siege ended that way.

There is a distinction between male and female and murder and suicide - however, in the light of what was going on at the time, it's reasonable to assume there would be confusion. Something like that doesn't happen every day and yes, mistakes were made - mistakes that have allowed Jeremy Bamber and those who support him to twist and manipulate them into a mass conspiracy that started when West answered the phone and is still perpetuated to this day.

When Bonnett made the distinction between farm and house, nothing much was happening EXCEPT Collins was 'IN CONVERSATION' with Jeremy (it says so in his statement) just before he 'CHALLENGED PERSONS INSIDE THE HOUSE' it's a distinction that fits with Collin's statement. The person referred to in Bonnett's log is Jeremy Bamber and so there is no proof that ANYONE was alive inside the HOUSE when Jeremy was outside - just anecdotal clap trap.

[Caroline]

It's not about a bunch of conspiracy theorists or people who hates the police would scrutinise their every word at a later date! It's about trying to establish the truth! How can the only rifle found to be present at a first floor box room window have been with Sheila Caffells body on the main bedroom floor, at one and the same time? More disturbingly, how can Sheila's body be even upstairs by 7.37am to 8.10am, in order for the gun at the box room window to be on her body in the main bedroom, if her body wasn't even upstairs by that stage!

If only that were the case.

[mike tesko]

Eh? But they didn't foresee anything, they didn't SEE things as is written, various people have written on the logs, so information was coming in from various sources. It wasn't until the TFG could clarify everything after the fact that a clear and accurate picture could be gleamed. 

For what reason would the TFG and EP have for keeping a fact such as 'Sheila being initially alive' to themselves? Don't tell me the 'something happened' without having any idea what that 'something' could be, because even if the police shot Sheila (which I don't believe for one second), she was a hostile suspect and they couldn't be blamed if the siege ended that way.

There is a distinction between male and female and murder and suicide - however, in the light of what was going on at the time, it's reasonable to assume there would be confusion. Something like that doesn't happen every day and yes, mistakes were made - mistakes that have allowed Jeremy Bamber and those who support him to twist and manipulate them into a mass conspiracy that started when West answered the phone and is still perpetuated to this day. How did the rifle get from its location and position at the first floor box room window, onto Sheila's body on the main bedroom floor in order for the TFG to discover her body there in possession of the said rifle if only three bodies were present upstairs by 8.10am? Who's was the missing fourth body from upstairs during this key period (7.37am - 8.10am)? The sighting of the rifle at the first floor box room window cannot be a mistake as you might like to put it! Neither can the fact that only three bodies were present upstairs by 8.10am be a mistake either! Cops can count and tell the correct time of day, it's their job to record details, facts and timing of events accurately!

When Bonnett made the distinction between farm and house, nothing much was happening EXCEPT Collins was 'IN CONVERSATION' with Jeremy (it says so in his statement) just before he 'CHALLENGED PERSONS INSIDE THE HOUSE' it's a distinction that fits with Collin's statement. The person referred to in Bonnett's log is Jeremy Bamber and so there is no proof that ANYONE was alive inside the HOUSE when Jeremy was outside - just anecdotal clap trap.