Witheld Docs

[lookout]

I totally concur with your first paragraph. "They had nothing on Jeremy" because Jeremy, by dint of alleged phone call allegedly implicating Sheila and being seen to arrive at WHF AFTER the police, had extricated himself from having at the scene since supper the previous evening.

You are also correct in saying Julie never told police that Jeremy had killed his family. As she was in London she wasn't there that night. Jeremy told Julie that he planned to. As Julie was never on trial, I don't feel it necessary to have her evidence in the public domain. I'll hazard a guess that if you thought Jeremy was guilty, you wouldn't be as interested in what she said. I wonder WHY it "has" to be a lie that Jeremy blamed a hit man?

I would still question what JM had said in her statements whether I thought JB guilty or not,as I'm not on my own in saying that there was corroboration between her and the relatives,according to the scant notes in her new found " diary " which bear a similarity to what RWB had said.

Because JM had mentioned the hitman and got it wrong,the blame went to JB for telling her,which was probably in jest knowing his type of humour which she was seemingly used to,except when he was on the stand,then it was a different matter.

[Jane]

I would still question what JM had said in her statements whether I thought JB guilty or not,as I'm not on my own in saying that there was corroboration between her and the relatives,according to the scant notes in her new found " diary " which bear a similarity to what RWB had said.

Because JM had mentioned the hitman and got it wrong,the blame went to JB for telling her,which was probably in jest knowing his type of humour which she was seemingly used to,except when he was on the stand,then it was a different matter.

Whilst you may not be on your own in believing that there was corroboration it doesn't mean that there was any. I don't think the relatives would have formed much of a relationship with Julie and as, during the first month, she was actively supporting him, it's unlikely she'd have wanted to have much to do with them and their views. ESPECIALLY so if she knew they were right?!!!

The only reason Julie could have been wrong about the hit man was because Jeremy TOLD her it was the hit man who'd "done it" for £2000. As for what you seem to dismiss as his sense of humour, it's a very sick one that blames the slaughter of his family on an unsuspecting and innocent man. He'd have done better to stick to what Nevill had allegedly told him, ie Sheila had gone mad and got hold of a gun.

[David1819]

The only reason Julie could have been wrong about the hit man was because Jeremy TOLD her it was the hit man who'd "done it" for £2000.

Wrong.

Rivlin QC told the jury: "The prosecution said Miss Mugford would have had to have had a convoluted mind to have made all this up. We say that she has."That Matthew (Mac-Donald) story is not only wrong in itself, but contains in it a number of details which can be proved to be untrue and which she can only have got from the police or Ann Eaton"

[notsure]

Most miscarriages of justice happen because ofwithheld information. That's not a myth it's a fact. People spend years inside then Whoopi do the withheld docs comes to light and proves they weren't responsible.

Whilst I appreciate Jane and Caroline believe jb to be guilty I can't quite get my head around why they are arguing this point. There is withheld information as EP state they couldn't locate stuff and the first investigation notes haven't been seen, certainly there would be many more interviews with jb that we haven't seen etc .

It is a disgrace that they won't disclose, but I'm still not sure why the CT don't take more legal action as I believe that is the only way to get it. All this putting out stuff to say that they have ignored court orders to me is a waste of time.

start raising money to go down the legal route again. I'd certainly contribute just to blooming well know one way or another.

Caroline what date did jb write that where he says he has nearly all the stuff. 

[Steve_uk]

Whilst you may not be on your own in believing that there was corroboration it doesn't mean that there was any. I don't think the relatives would have formed much of a relationship with Julie and as, during the first month, she was actively supporting him, it's unlikely she'd have wanted to have much to do with them and their views. ESPECIALLY so if she knew they were right?!!!

The only reason Julie could have been wrong about the hit man was because Jeremy TOLD her it was the hit man who'd "done it" for £2000. As for what you seem to dismiss as his sense of humour, it's a very sick one that blames the slaughter of his family on an unsuspecting and innocent man. He'd have done better to stick to what Nevill had allegedly told him, ie Sheila had gone mad and got hold of a gun.

You know Jane I was just thinking that Julie didn't seem to me to be a "silly" person if you know what I mean: people cracking jokes or liking the sound of their own voice or living in their own little world as I think Sheila may have been wont to do. It's for this reason that I don't think she made up any stories. It's testament to the power of love that she couldn't see through Jeremy until it was too late. I think she did try and reason in her own mind, the mind that later wrote a Maths textbook for Canadian schoolchildren and a mind focussed on the logic of reasonable people she had known heretofore in England and not the mind of someone like Jeremy Bamber, psychopath or not.

[Caroline]

Whilst you may not be on your own in believing that there was corroboration it doesn't mean that there was any. I don't think the relatives would have formed much of a relationship with Julie and as, during the first month, she was actively supporting him, it's unlikely she'd have wanted to have much to do with them and their views. ESPECIALLY so if she knew they were right?!!!

The only reason Julie could have been wrong about the hit man was because Jeremy TOLD her it was the hit man who'd "done it" for £2000. As for what you seem to dismiss as his sense of humour, it's a very sick one that blames the slaughter of his family on an unsuspecting and innocent man. He'd have done better to stick to what Nevill had allegedly told him, ie Sheila had gone mad and got hold of a gun.

I agree, Julie didn't had no reason to make up the hitman story.

[Jane]

Most miscarriages of justice happen because ofwithheld information. That's not a myth it's a fact. People spend years inside then Whoopi do the withheld docs comes to light and proves they weren't responsible.

Whilst I appreciate Jane and Caroline believe jb to be guilty I can't quite get my head around why they are arguing this point. There is withheld information as EP state they couldn't locate stuff and the first investigation notes haven't been seen, certainly there would be many more interviews with jb that we haven't seen etc .

It is a disgrace that they won't disclose, but I'm still not sure why the CT don't take more legal action as I believe that is the only way to get it. All this putting out stuff to say that they have ignored court orders to me is a waste of time.

start raising money to go down the legal route again. I'd certainly contribute just to blooming well know one way or another.

Caroline what date did jb write that where he says he has nearly all the stuff.

There seems to be a wealth of word manipulation that we're being asked to swallow. Just because Rivlin gave various of his opinions to the jury, doesn't mean they can be taken as being definitively correct. I don't believe he proved untrue anything Julie said and the verdict given by the jury seems to validate the belief.

I would like to know exactly WHY some people believe the police are deliberately holding information. Who told them? From WHERE did this information come? Saying information can't be located isn't saying they have the information secreted away. Perhaps it can't be located because it isn't there? HOWEVER, I DO appreciate that chanting the mantra "Information is being withheld" gives supporters something to cling to and hope for.

[lookout]

I agree, Julie didn't had no reason to make up the hitman story.

No,she could have come right out with it and said it was Jeremy------------but she didn't did she ?

[Jane]

You know Jane I was just thinking that Julie didn't seem to me to be a "silly" person if you know what I mean: people cracking jokes or liking the sound of their own voice or living in their own little world as I think Sheila may have been wont to do. It's for this reason that I don't think she made up any stories. It's testament to the power of love that she couldn't see through Jeremy until it was too late. I think she did try and reason in her own mind, the mind that later wrote a Maths textbook for Canadian schoolchildren and a mind focussed on the logic of reasonable people she had known heretofore in England and not the mind of someone like Jeremy Bamber, psychopath or not.

Steve, I don't believe that Julie's background was conducive to the production of a naturally frivolous and vapid character. I don't think things had come easily, to Julie, as they had to Sheila and Jeremy. She'd had to work for what she achieved. For this reason I feel that being with Jeremy gave her a taste -for a while- of the sort of life she'd only ever dreamed of and for a time she was swept away by it............until she started to question it.

[Jane]

No,she could have come right out with it and said it was Jeremy------------but she didn't did she ?

How could she, Lookout? To do that WOULD have been a lie. Jeremy didn't tell her he'd done it. He told her previously that he planned to do it. He told her he'd hired a hit man.

[Steve_uk]

Steve, I don't believe that Julie's background was conducive to the production of a naturally frivolous and vapid character. I don't think things had come easily, to Julie, as they had to Sheila and Jeremy. She'd had to work for what she achieved. For this reason I feel that being with Jeremy gave her a taste -for a while- of the sort of life she'd only ever dreamed of and for a time she was swept away by it............until she started to question it.

..and by that time it was too late and the tragedy had occurred.

[Caroline]

No,she could have come right out with it and said it was Jeremy------------but she didn't did she ?

She could but she didn't but that doesn't make her a liar.

[lookout]

How could she, Lookout? To do that WOULD have been a lie. Jeremy didn't tell her he'd done it. He told her previously that he planned to do it. He told her he'd hired a hit man.

Easily.The lies rolled off her tongue. 
Bit of a difference in " being told " that he planned to do it--------and doing it. If only life was that easy that decisions were made for you.
He'd planned it,so he must have done it. Dear me.

[Caroline]

Easily.The lies rolled off her tongue. 
Bit of a difference in " being told " that he planned to do it--------and doing it. If only life was that easy that decisions were made for you.
He'd planned it,so he must have done it. Dear me.

He planned it, it happened and you think it;s a stretch to think he might be guilty? 

[Caroline]

Most miscarriages of justice happen because ofwithheld information. That's not a myth it's a fact. People spend years inside then Whoopi do the withheld docs comes to light and proves they weren't responsible.

Whilst I appreciate Jane and Caroline believe jb to be guilty I can't quite get my head around why they are arguing this point. There is withheld information as EP state they couldn't locate stuff and the first investigation notes haven't been seen, certainly there would be many more interviews with jb that we haven't seen etc .

It is a disgrace that they won't disclose, but I'm still not sure why the CT don't take more legal action as I believe that is the only way to get it. All this putting out stuff to say that they have ignored court orders to me is a waste of time.

start raising money to go down the legal route again. I'd certainly contribute just to blooming well know one way or another.

Caroline what date did jb write that where he says he has nearly all the stuff.

28th January 2015