Author Topic: Witheld Docs  (Read 22949 times)

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Offline Caroline

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Re: Witheld Docs
« Reply #180 on: July 02, 2017, 12:13:PM »
I think they are a bit gung-ho, slack and closed-minded, as opposed to being cautious, diligent and open- minded.  I don't think they are deliberately dishonest.

They don't correct things that are wrong - like the information on the so call 'missing log'. Their information on this was so confusing that many here and a national newspaper thought it was the 'Nevill log' that was recently discovered (their claim, not mine). However, this claim is actually associated with the Jeremy phone call log. There is a link to a newspaper article on the OS where the newspaper clearly gets it wrong.

They also could have checked out the phone call tones and found out they were the samme, instead, they claim they were different which proves Sheila was alive - BS!
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Offline Roch

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Re: Witheld Docs
« Reply #181 on: July 02, 2017, 12:15:PM »
Any prosecution would go through statements and omit those that aren't helpful. The defence aren't benign in this process Roch and they had just as much time to prepare.

I don't believe the stuff about pocket books going missing or lofts being burgled etc.

In my opinion the defence had time to prepare - but were blind / hamstrung / chasing their tails etc.  It was an uneven fight. 

I would hate to think that DCI Jones' family are liars.  However I have not directly communicated with them myself.   Regarding pocket books - I had in mind Mike's assertions regarding the pocket book of DS Stan Jones. 

Offline Adam

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Re: Witheld Docs
« Reply #182 on: July 02, 2017, 12:16:PM »
The case didn't go to trial until October 1986.  Police had ample time to conceal, omit, destroy, manipulate etc.  They had time to sift through statements and ditch the ones that weren't helpful ;you wont be required to give evidence on this occasion'.  They had time to prep legal to ask loaded questions to prepped prosecution witnesses during the trial.

Some people on your own side don't even believe a silencer was used  :))  Let alone a one with a label bearing case number that hadn't even yet come in to existence. 

Whether much of the case evidence is proven to be forged seems to be subjective.  It's either fishy to people or its not.  For example - if there is alleged pocket book mishandling - people either take it in to account or overlook it - depending upon their view.

You didn't answer my question.

How did the police (without Taff), experts, blood testers, professors & relatives all work together to create a huge amount of incriminating evidence for the DPP. Which was by late September 1985 ?

The DPP would not have accepted the police's submission for a trial unless the police had a strong case.

You believe after September 1985, dozens or hundreds of people inside & outside of EP spent a year fine tuning 200+ pieces of false evidence and destroying other evidence. I would have preferred them to do the jobs they were paid to do.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2017, 12:17:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

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Re: Witheld Docs
« Reply #183 on: July 02, 2017, 12:19:PM »
At least Roch is agreeing all the published evidence shows Bamber is guilty. This goes without saying as Bamber was convicted 32 years ago & everything on my list is very damning.

However he believes all the evidence was created through forgery & disposal on an unprecedented scale.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2017, 12:21:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Roch

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Re: Witheld Docs
« Reply #184 on: July 02, 2017, 12:21:PM »
You didn't answer my question.

How did the police (without Taff), experts, blood testers, professors & relatives all work together to create a huge amount of incriminating evidence for the DPP. Which was by late September 1985 ?

The DPP would not have accepted the police's submission for a trial unless the police had a strong case.

The police didn't have to do the above.  There is a letter on here from the DPP or CPS or whatever the agency was called.  It gives the go-ahead and lists the reasons why.  I don't think the list is massive.

Offline Caroline

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Re: Witheld Docs
« Reply #185 on: July 02, 2017, 12:22:PM »
In my opinion the defence had time to prepare - but were blind / hamstrung / chasing their tails etc.  It was an uneven fight. 

I would hate to think that DCI Jones' family are liars.  However I have not directly communicated with them myself.   Regarding pocket books - I had in mind Mike's assertions regarding the pocket book of DS Stan Jones.

And in there lays the problem.
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Offline Roch

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Re: Witheld Docs
« Reply #186 on: July 02, 2017, 12:32:PM »
And in there lays the problem.

Not really. 

I believe Mike Tesko is capable of being accurate as well as misleading.

It comes down to a matter of sifting through what is claimed.  Sorting the wheat from the chaff. 


Offline lookout

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Re: Witheld Docs
« Reply #187 on: July 02, 2017, 12:46:PM »
Ah but the brains behind the CT are those working in the background of the case,page by page. A fresh outlook on a 30 year old case can throw up all kinds of" nasties" that occurred during the investigation and trial." Nasties" that wouldn't be accepted in todays courts of law.
I can only hope that the QC who is helping with this case is Michael Mansfield,not just because of his vast experience in his working life,but also the very sad experience he had with a daughter,Anna, who suffered mental health issues and committed suicide a couple of years ago after having made other attempts. It's not something anyone expects will happen as these things happen quickly and unexpectedly when they do.
I've just been reading about a man who killed his two children out of revenge because of a divorce (todays Mail ) This practically happens on a daily basis. Sheila had far more on her plate !! Years of a controlling mother takes its toll alone besides other huge issues which were going on in her life,and had gone on.
This murder was never about money as none was taken and there was a safe full of it-----workers wages,etc.

When was it last known that relatives took centre stage in an investigation, for starters ? Who did more than " assist ",but bought goodies for those officers who they befriended,then threw a party for all the hangers-on after all their Birthdays and Christmas's came at once ? Money being no object because it wasn't theirs ! Money that had belonged to a hard-working man who'd built-up his business through sheer hard graft.
I just think it's disgraceful that all anyone thought about was the money and nothing else. They all had their noses in the trough.
 Neville would definitely turn in his grave at this outcome,but somehow I get the feeling that it wouldn't have surprised him either,as there was little love lost between the families.

Offline Adam

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Re: Witheld Docs
« Reply #188 on: July 02, 2017, 12:49:PM »
The police didn't have to do the above.  There is a letter on here from the DPP or CPS or whatever the agency was called.  It gives the go-ahead and lists the reasons why.  I don't think the list is massive.

Can you supply that list ?

Anyway over 200 pieces of published evidence show Bamber was 'definately the killer'.

Proof that one piece was forged may result in Bamber getting off on a technicality.

Proof that there was a tight knit, huge, multi organisational & efficient operation to create a mass of false evidence to frame Bamber, will show he was innocent.

After 32 years, neither has been found.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2017, 01:03:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Caroline

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Re: Witheld Docs
« Reply #189 on: July 02, 2017, 12:50:PM »
Ah but the brains behind the CT are those working in the background of the case,page by page. A fresh outlook on a 30 year old case can throw up all kinds of" nasties" that occurred during the investigation and trial." Nasties" that wouldn't be accepted in todays courts of law.
I can only hope that the QC who is helping with this case is Michael Mansfield,not just because of his vast experience in his working life,but also the very sad experience he had with a daughter,Anna, who suffered mental health issues and committed suicide a couple of years ago after having made other attempts. It's not something anyone expects will happen as these things happen quickly and unexpectedly when they do.
I've just been reading about a man who killed his two children out of revenge because of a divorce (todays Mail ) This practically happens on a daily basis. Sheila had far more on her plate !! Years of a controlling mother takes its toll alone besides other huge issues which were going on in her life,and had gone on.
This murder was never about money as none was taken and there was a safe full of it-----workers wages,etc.

When was it last known that relatives took centre stage in an investigation, for starters ? Who did more than " assist ",but bought goodies for those officers who they befriended,then threw a party for all the hangers-on after all their Birthdays and Christmas's came at once ? Money being no object because it wasn't theirs ! Money that had belonged to a hard-working man who'd built-up his business through sheer hard graft.
I just think it's disgraceful that all anyone thought about was the money and nothing else. They all had their noses in the trough.
 Neville would definitely turn in his grave at this outcome,but somehow I get the feeling that it wouldn't have surprised him either,as there was little love lost between the families.

The you'd have though they would get it write then!
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Offline Caroline

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Re: Witheld Docs
« Reply #190 on: July 02, 2017, 12:51:PM »
Not really. 

I believe Mike Tesko is capable of being accurate as well as misleading.

It comes down to a matter of sifting through what is claimed.  Sorting the wheat from the chaff.

Too much Chaff
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Offline lookout

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Re: Witheld Docs
« Reply #191 on: July 02, 2017, 01:03:PM »
The you'd have though they would get it write then!





Give them chance.When there are thousands of files/docs in no particular order,etc then it takes time,as well as trying to decipher some of the scrawl/edits/crossings-out and lack of legal aid ! They WILL get it right.

Offline Caroline

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Re: Witheld Docs
« Reply #192 on: July 02, 2017, 01:10:PM »




Give them chance.When there are thousands of files/docs in no particular order,etc then it takes time,as well as trying to decipher some of the scrawl/edits/crossings-out and lack of legal aid ! They WILL get it right.

Then they should make claims until they have it right.
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Offline lookout

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Re: Witheld Docs
« Reply #193 on: July 02, 2017, 01:45:PM »
At least Roch is agreeing all the published evidence shows Bamber is guilty. This goes without saying as Bamber was convicted 32 years ago & everything on my list is very damning.

However he believes all the evidence was created through forgery & disposal on an unprecedented scale.





Well the legal team behind the CT have to prove him innocent,don't they ? A much tougher job !!

Offline lookout

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Re: Witheld Docs
« Reply #194 on: July 02, 2017, 01:47:PM »
Then they should make claims until they have it right.





It's called drip-feeding.