Author Topic: After He called police at 3.36am, Jeremy was put on hold immediately for 5 min's  (Read 12371 times)

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Offline mike tesko

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The introduction of information from Bamber, not having been inserted into Neville Bambers (C1) Communications log, until after Jeremy had arrived at the scene after 3.52am (26 minutes after the first details were recorded in Neville Bambers phone log at 3.26am)...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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The bottom line, is that you can't build into the 3.26am (C1) Communications log, the 5 minute delay whilst Jeremy was placed on hold by PC West, a call from Jeremy which could only have been made to Chelmsford police station after the occupants of CA07 (Bews, Myall and Saxby) had been deployed to the incident at whf at 3.35am, an unchallenged timed event...

Logic dictates the absolute truth in this matter, no room for error or speculation, except by anxious prosecution supporters who find it difficult to accept that Jeremy Bamber is at the heart of one of the UK's worst ever miscarriages of Justice in its entire history...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Jeremy Bamber, for all his many faults in the popularity charts, he really did receive a distress call from Neville Bamber at around 3.25am. He really did try at least twice to re-establish contact with Neville, only to be met with an engaged tone, suggestive that Neville had already obtained a dialing tone at his end, or that Neville was already talking to somebody else. Jeremy, being the son of the Chairman of the Witham Magistrates bench, did what Neville would have done had he got the chance, he would have contacted the local police at Witham, with whom Neville had a good working relationship linked to his part time employment as a local Magistrate. So, impulsively Jeremy tried contacting the local police at Witham police station, to check to see if they had heard from Neville. His call went unanswered. Maybe this caused Jeremy to suspect that the local police were already on their way to the incident which Neville had just brought to his attention. So, in a state of subdued frustration he decided to call Julie Mugford at 3.30am, 'There's something wrong at home', he found himself saying to her. She responed with a cold 'go back to bed'...

Still somewhat confused about the nature of Nevilles call, how the line had been cut short so unexpectedly, how the line was producing 'an engaged tone' when he rang back, how the local police at Witham were not responding to his call, and to top it all off Julie showing no interest or concern, she simply telling him in a rather cold off hand manner to, 'go back to bed'...

How did Julie know that he had been in bed, prior to receiving Nevilles call, and prior to making his call to her? 'Go back to bed', she had told him, 'Go back to bed'...

This was an interesting comment on Julies part, in view of her later stating that on the previous evening Jeremy had told her in another telephone conversation, allegedly, 'tonight's the night'...

'Tonight's the night', and 'Go back to bed', somehow don't smack of a plan carefully arranged with Julies knowlege, to murder his entire family, now does it?

'Go back to bed'...

But, he didn't go back to bed. Maybe he then started getting himself dressed, and then found time to pick up the telephone directory and look up Chelmsford police station telephone number. Whilst he was looking up the number, the occupants of CA07 were being deployed to the same incident which Neville had told him about. Jeremy didn't know this at the time, of course, but the deployment of Bews, Myall and Saxby to the farmhouse at 3.35am, prior to Jeremy's own answered call to Chelmsford police station at precisely 3.36am, would eventually in the year 2017 contribute significantly to his release from custody after serving 32 years behind bars for a series of crimes he could not have, and did not commit. Evidence provided on behalf of 'a philosophical Internationally acclaimed expert' would in that year (2017) outline the case for Jeremy's innocence, based upon the sequential occurrence of known timed events, some unchallenged, others open to interpretation. This presentation will be supported by specially prepared versions of the (C1) Communications log entries, and the second police Communication log entries, showing the state of play on a minute to minute blow of the unfolding drama as witness by Malcom Bonnett from 3.26am, onwards, and from PC Wests perspective involving Jeremy's influence in the proceedings from 3.36am, onward. I know this will come to pass, and when it happens I will sit quietly in my room, and I doubt that anyone will stop to think for one moment about the contribution I have made, to try and make this happen. I am no expert, the only qualification I got in philosophy, was a pass with a distinction, after taking philosophy up whilst a serving prisoner at HMP Full Sutton between 1989 and 1990, as part of an advanced certificate in education, at Hull University, which also included a course on sociology, and economics...

« Last Edit: January 09, 2017, 11:26:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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QC's are philosophers, so are High Court Judges who sit in judgement of judgements and verdicts of a jury in Criminal and civil cases...

I can forsee the legal argument now, in my minds eye - 'How could Jeremy's call to Chelmsford police have been any sooner than 3.36am, by acceptance of the unargued/accepted fact that the occupants of CA07 (Bews, Myall, and Saxby) being deployed to the incident at the farmhouse (3.35am) prior to Jeremy making his own call to Chelmsford police station?
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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QC's are philosophers, so are High Court Judges who sit in judgement of judgements and verdicts of a jury in Criminal and civil cases...

I can forsee the legal argument now, in my minds eye - 'How could Jeremy's call to Chelmsford police have been any sooner than 3.36am, by acceptance of the unargued/accepted fact that the occupants of CA07 (Bews, Myall, and Saxby) being deployed to the incident at the farmhouse (3.35am) prior to Jeremy making his own call to Chelmsford police station?

A mind, or a series of minds, far superior in intelligence, experience and philosophical thought, will eventually come to the table where they will present the facts, consider and argue its implications, and settle upon an explanation that no human mind could think up a counter argument to try to alter or change its findings of fact, in this particular matter. This will be presented, argued, concluded upon, and settle the question or otherwise of Jeremy Bambers culpability in these five murders, in the next 12 month period...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Reader

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Jeremy was placed on hold for 5 minutes, whilst PC West finished dealing with another (related matter). At around 3.40 / 3.41am, Jeremy finally got to inform PC West . . .
That's just an estimate, and wasn't supported by Pc West during the trial. Hence all the times you've deduced from that could well be a couple of minutes later than the correct times. In particular, after Jeremy's call had ended, Pc West could have had time to call the operator (regarding the WHF telephone lline) and then receive a reply whilst his clock showed 3:42. Also, Jeremy could have reached WHF at about the time that corresponds with Bonnett's log (around 3:50am), rather than the slightly later time of 3:52am that you mention as though it's firmly established.

Jeremy's call to PC West was recorded on audio tape, similarly to what occurs using the '999' system.
There's no evidence that Jeremy's call to Pc West was recorded on audio tape. It was Bonnett that later mentioned audio recording, not Pc West. However, Pc West's telephone call to Bonnett was recorded according to Bonnett.

I am utterly satisfied that if Jeremy had gone the route of dialling '999', instead of the option he chose, that police would not have been alerted any sooner
That doesn't imply that Jeremy would have thought the same, though he might have done so.

It didn't take 10 minutes to look up the telephone number of Chelmsford police station - where do you get that idea from? It took 4 to 5 minutes maximum, after 3.32 / 3.33am when he ended his call to Julie Mugford...
I think it took even less time than that, because it's quite easy to find police telephone numbers. I think Jeremy said it took 2 minutes at most, which was misrecorded as 10 minutes at most. We don't know exactly when his call to JM ended, but I think it's likely he got dressed before calling Pc West (as I don't think he had enough time to dress after that call).

. . . the closest units to WHF were deployed, and did race to the incident
According to Bonnett's log, car CA5 took about 47 minutes to reach WHF, so it didn't "race" there, instead averaging considerably less than 30mph.

I thought the occupants of CA07 was meeting Bamber, if they were responding from a call from Neville they would have told Bamber this?
Not necessarily, as it wouldn't have served any useful purpose.

There is no proof Nevill telephoned Jeremy; only Jeremy's claims that he had.
The prosecution failed to provide evidence that Nevill didn't call Jeremy. The police seemed to think it plausible that he did.

I am interested in the first 5 minutes of Jeremy's 10 minute call, which everyone seems to be in agreement with, was a call which did take place. There was a 5 minute period at the commencement of Jeremy's call to Chelmsford police station where Jeremy was placed on hold!!
At trial, Pc West estimated that period as being about 3 minutes.

How did Jeremy get to WHF by 3:50am if he was still at home at 3:46am?
He left a few minutes earlier than that. We don't know exactly when, but he needed to drive for around 7 minutes, as Mike Tesko took about 7 minutes 21 seconds to drive a similar journey, albeit during daytime.

So, impulsively Jeremy tried contacting the local police at Witham police station, to check to see if they had heard from Neville. His call went unanswered.
Jeremy must have no recollection of this, as he's specifically denied trying to call Witham.

Offline Adam

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I agree with Mike that -

Bamber called Julie before the police.

Bamber was kept on hold for 5 minutes by the police.

Bamber only spent a short time looking for the number of Chelmsford police.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

guest7363

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That's just an estimate, and wasn't supported by Pc West during the trial. Hence all the times you've deduced from that could well be a couple of minutes later than the correct times. In particular, after Jeremy's call had ended, Pc West could have had time to call the operator (regarding the WHF telephone lline) and then receive a reply whilst his clock showed 3:42. Also, Jeremy could have reached WHF at about the time that corresponds with Bonnett's log (around 3:50am), rather than the slightly later time of 3:52am that you mention as though it's firmly established.
There's no evidence that Jeremy's call to Pc West was recorded on audio tape. It was Bonnett that later mentioned audio recording, not Pc West. However, Pc West's telephone call to Bonnett was recorded according to Bonnett.
That doesn't imply that Jeremy would have thought the same, though he might have done so.
I think it took even less time than that, because it's quite easy to find police telephone numbers. I think Jeremy said it took 2 minutes at most, which was misrecorded as 10 minutes at most. We don't know exactly when his call to JM ended, but I think it's likely he got dressed before calling Pc West (as I don't think he had enough time to dress after that call).
According to Bonnett's log, car CA5 took about 47 minutes to reach WHF, so it didn't "race" there, instead averaging considerably less than 30mph.
Not necessarily, as it wouldn't have served any useful purpose.
The prosecution failed to provide evidence that Nevill didn't call Jeremy. The police seemed to think it plausible that he did.
At trial, Pc West estimated that period as being about 3 minutes.
He left a few minutes earlier than that. We don't know exactly when, but he needed to drive for around 7 minutes, as Mike Tesko took about 7 minutes 21 seconds to drive a similar journey, albeit during daytime.
Jeremy must have no recollection of this, as he's specifically denied trying to call Witham.
Quote from: justice on Yesterday at 01:49 PM
I thought the occupants of CA07 was meeting Bamber, if they were responding from a call from Neville they would have told Bamber this?
  From Reader  Not necessarily, as it wouldn't have served any useful purpose.

Well they found it useful to ask him why his Father called him and not the police?

Quote from: mike tesko on Yesterday at 11:16 PM
So, impulsively Jeremy tried contacting the local police at Witham police station, to check to see if they had heard from Neville. His call went unanswered.
 From Reader, Jeremy must have no recollection of this, as he's specifically denied trying to call Witham.
Well he does tell Bews he phoned Witham?
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3132.0;attach=38124

Quote from: mike tesko on Yesterday at 01:19 PM
It didn't take 10 minutes to look up the telephone number of Chelmsford police station - where do you get that idea from? It took 4 to 5 minutes maximum, after 3.32 / 3.33am when he ended his call to Julie Mugford...
  From Reader.  I think it took even less time than that, because it's quite easy to find police telephone numbers. I think Jeremy said it took 2 minutes at most, which was misrecorded as 10 minutes at most. We don't know exactly when his call to JM ended, but I think it's likely he got dressed before calling Pc West (as I don't think he had enough time to dress after that call).
This is your own spin,  Read this and tell me how you get two minutes or Mike gets 4/5 minutes?

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1144.0;attach=5791


The problem is I agree with Mike, he did phone Witham, after making the mistake of telling Bews he had phoned Witham which they had questioned him regarding not phoning 999, he never mentions Witham again because he has looked stupid spending ten minutes looking for two local police numbers.  If you spend time looking for one and get no reply why spend time looking for another, when all you have to do is call 999.

Offline Caroline

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Quote from: justice on Yesterday at 01:49 PM
I thought the occupants of CA07 was meeting Bamber, if they were responding from a call from Neville they would have told Bamber this?
  From Reader  Not necessarily, as it wouldn't have served any useful purpose.

Well they found it useful to ask him why his Father called him and not the police?

Quote from: mike tesko on Yesterday at 11:16 PM
So, impulsively Jeremy tried contacting the local police at Witham police station, to check to see if they had heard from Neville. His call went unanswered.
 From Reader, Jeremy must have no recollection of this, as he's specifically denied trying to call Witham.
Well he does tell Bews he phoned Witham?
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3132.0;attach=38124

Quote from: mike tesko on Yesterday at 01:19 PM
It didn't take 10 minutes to look up the telephone number of Chelmsford police station - where do you get that idea from? It took 4 to 5 minutes maximum, after 3.32 / 3.33am when he ended his call to Julie Mugford...
  From Reader.  I think it took even less time than that, because it's quite easy to find police telephone numbers. I think Jeremy said it took 2 minutes at most, which was misrecorded as 10 minutes at most. We don't know exactly when his call to JM ended, but I think it's likely he got dressed before calling Pc West (as I don't think he had enough time to dress after that call).
This is your own spin,  Read this and tell me how you get two minutes or Mike gets 4/5 minutes?

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1144.0;attach=5791


The problem is I agree with Mike, he did phone Witham, after making the mistake of telling Bews he had phoned Witham which they had questioned him regarding not phoning 999, he never mentions Witham again because he has looked stupid spending ten minutes looking for two local police numbers.  If you spend time looking for one and get no reply why spend time looking for another, when all you have to do is call 999.

H also told West he phoned Witham.
Few people have the imagination for reality

guest7363

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H also told West he phoned Witham.
Thanks Caroline, so Bews was right. 

Offline Caroline

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Thanks Caroline, so Bews was right.

He certainly was  ;)
Few people have the imagination for reality

Offline Reader

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Well they found it useful to ask him why his Father called him and not the police?
That may be what they eventually said happened, but Jeremy doesn't recall it. The statements by the occupants of CA7 don't concentrate sufficiently on details, and they seem to be all much the same, as though they had carefully agreed on their content instead of writing them separately. However, they do indicate that CA7 went to WHF at very high speed. In contrast, car CA5 averaged somewhere between 25mph and 30mph, which seems very odd if both cars were sent in response to just one telephone call to the police. Also, if Jeremy's call was received at 3:26 rather than 3:36, there was a considerable delay
before car CA5 departed, despite the fact that its occupants were with Pc West in the Chelmsford control room at the time. Pc West told Jeremy to meet with car CA7 (the police from Witham), but didn't mention to him that CA5 was also on its away, although it would get there second due to the greater distance it needed to go.

Read this and tell me how you get two minutes or Mike gets 4/5 minutes?
When interviewed, Jeremy was asked how long it took him to lookup the police number. He replied "10 minutes at the outside" (or words to that effect) according to the transcript of the interview. I used to accept that was his answer. However, "10 minutes" and "2 minutes" can sound very similar when spoken as the beginning of a sentence, and I suspect that Jeremy said "2 minutes", which was misrecorded as "10 minutes" when his interview was typed out (because 10 minutes would be unreasonably long just to look up a telephone number, as would 4/5 minutes). There are no explicit references to 4/5 minutes for this, so I would think that Mike Tesko was going more by the time available than by the transcript.

. . . he never mentions Witham again because he has looked stupid spending ten minutes looking for two local police numbers.
That doesn't make sense. He didn't tell the police at the time that he had spent 10 minutes doing that. He allegedly mentioned 10 minutes when interviewed about a month later. He needn't have done that if he thought it seemed stupid, as he wasn't being asked to account for all the time he took. If the police interviewing him had a concern about why Jeremy took so much time, they would have asked him "Why would it have taken you 10 minutes to look up a police telephone number?" (or words to that effect), but they didn't. The fact that they didn't suggests that Jeremy actually gave the much more reasonable reply of "2 minutes at the outside".

guest7363

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Personally Reader I don't think it took him 10 mins, the trouble is, when you are being questioned you don't know what the police have in evidence against you, if that makes sense.  So he could have invented the 10 mins to buy him time in between phone calls, or to account for why he delayed?  Not saying this is certain though.

Why would he mention Witham to two people then never mention it again or deny as you clam?  Why would West and Bews say he called a Witham?   There must be a reason Bamber never mentions Witham again or Denys calling them? 

Offline Stephanie

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That may be what they eventually said happened, but Jeremy doesn't recall it. The statements by the occupants of CA7 don't concentrate sufficiently on details, and they seem to be all much the same, as though they had carefully agreed on their content instead of writing them separately. However, they do indicate that CA7 went to WHF at very high speed. In contrast, car CA5 averaged somewhere between 25mph and 30mph, which seems very odd if both cars were sent in response to just one telephone call to the police. Also, if Jeremy's call was received at 3:26 rather than 3:36, there was a considerable delay
before car CA5 departed, despite the fact that its occupants were with Pc West in the Chelmsford control room at the time. Pc West told Jeremy to meet with car CA7 (the police from Witham), but didn't mention to him that CA5 was also on its away, although it would get there second due to the greater distance it needed to go.
When interviewed, Jeremy was asked how long it took him to lookup the police number. He replied "10 minutes

Why can Jeremy not recall certain aspects of his timings one minute but can the next. If you read his witness statements along with his police interviews and his evidence given his court you will see how it is Jeremy who has purposely mixed up the timings in order to confuse. If you look at Jeremys evidence only and put aside all other evidence and any thoughts you have on the other evidence it becomes clear.

If you ask yourself why Jeremy wasn't giving the police all his evidence, the next question should be why is he withholding it?

There should only be one story from Jeremy and that story should remain firm, not change over 32 years. The facts, if they are facts won't change. The police have never changed the facts they presented - only Jeremy has changed the facts. Why has he done this?
« Last Edit: January 10, 2017, 02:19:PM by Stephanie »
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Offline Stephanie

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Personally Reader I don't think it took him 10 mins, the trouble is, when you are being questioned you don't know what the police have in evidence against you, if that makes sense.  So he could have invented the 10 mins to buy him time in between phone calls, or to account for why he delayed?  Not saying this is certain though.

Why would he mention Witham to two people then never mention it again or deny as you clam?  Why would West and Bews say he called a Witham?   There must be a reason Bamber never mentions Witham again or Denys calling them?

I agree justice. There's no doubt the police have made errors and it's clear Jeremy has used these errors in an attempt to confuse his original evidence given in his first statement, police interviews and subsequently during his trial.

It's also clear Jeremy has a selective memory when it suits him. I've noticed how he tells his supporters he cannot recall some things but can others. I was reading a blog last night and it's evident he's telling one person one thing and another person something else entirely.

I believe he did mention Witham but because he wasn't questioned on it and as he was figuring out where the police were going with regards to the timings etc, he thought it best to keep his mouth shut.

This is not the behavior of an innocent man.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2017, 02:16:PM by Stephanie »
“The only people who are mad at you for telling the truth are those people who are living a lie. Keep telling the truth"