Reasons why Bamber's second call to Julie was at 3am:

[mike tesko]

How can it be mischievously when Bamber said it was 3.10am, when Bamber said he next phoned Julie, then immediately phoned Chelmsford, he then says it took him 10mins to look the number up.

He didn't say he received the call at 3.10am, he did not write his witness statement, it was written out by DC Clark who paraphrased the time of the call. Clark wrote ' at around 3.10am', which does not mean the call was at that time. Other facts establish that the call made by Neville to Jeremy occurred at around 3.25am. You can't go around plucking a time out of thin air just because it mentions a time here, there or everywhere, in isolation. Ok, lets take this example of yours and say, right the time of Nevilles call to Jeremy was at 3.10am, no doubt about it...

OK, so in isolation thats fair and dandy. But there are other related features which need to be taken into account, if we are to say, yes, the time of Nevilles call to Jeremy had been at 3.10am. So that's settled just to appease you and your proposition. First thing I want to say, is that there was only a 10 minute delay between the time Nevilles call to Jeremy got cut short. The call which Jeremy made to police at Chelmsford lasted 10 minutes, the first 5 minutes of which Jeremy was placed on hold. The occupants of CA07, that is Bews, Myall and Saxby were deployed to the scene prior to Jeremy making contact with the police at Chelmsford. PC West contacted a female operator at 3.42am whilst he had Jeremy still on the exchange line...

The time that the occupants of CA07 (Bews, Myall and Saxby) were deployed to the incident at the farmhouse, has never been in doubt by anyone. Even the appellate court accepted that CA07 were deployed to the scene from Witham police station at precisely 3.35am. Same philosophy was applied in the matter of PC West contacting a female operator regarding the phone at the farmhouse? So, we have two timed events, the deployment of CA07 occupants to the scene at 3.35am, which occurred prior to Jeremy contacting Chelmsford police station at 3.36am (unchallemged), and secondly, PC Wests contact with a female operator regarding the state of the phone at the scene, at 3.42am, at a time PC West still had Jeremy on the exchange line from 3.36am, onward...

You can already see chaos developing in connection with your proposition. Since, Jeremy would hardly have been contacting Chelmsford police station at 3.20am, be on hold 5 minutes before he actually speaks to PC West at 3.25am, and for the occupants of CA07 to have been deployed to the scene (3.35am) prior to Jeremy contacting Chelmsford police, or for that matter for Jeremy to still be on the line with PC West at 3.42am whilst he contacted a female operator regarding the state of the phone back at the farmhouse?

You see the problem?

Chaos!!!

[Stephanie]

BREAKING NEWS

It appears that Poppy Ann Miller has closed the twitter account which was dedicated to supporting Jeremy. Allegedly she received a "to be signed for" communication from him after which she closed the account. Perhaps she's done all she can for him?

I hope Poppy has support!

[guest7363]

He didn't say he received the call at 3.10am, he did not write his witness statement, it was written out by DC Clark who paraphrased the time of the call. Clark wrote ' at around 3.10am', which does not mean the call was at that time. Other facts establish that the call made by Neville to Jeremy occurred at around 3.25am. You can't go around plucking a time out of thin air just because it mentions a time here, there or everywhere, in isolation. Ok, lets take this example of yours and say, right the time of Nevilles call to Jeremy was at 3.10am, no doubt about it...

OK, so in isolation thats fair and dandy. But there are other related features which need to be taken into account, if we are to say, yes, the time of Nevilles call to Jeremy had been at 3.10am. So that's settled just to appease you and your proposition. First thing I want to say, is that there was only a 10 minute delay between the time Nevilles call to Jeremy got cut short. The call which Jeremy made to police at Chelmsford lasted 10 minutes, the first 5 minutes of which Jeremy was placed on hold. The occupants of CA07, that is Bews, Myall and Saxby were deployed to the scene prior to Jeremy making contact with the police at Chelmsford. PC West contacted a female operator at 3.42am whilst he had Jeremy still on the exchange line...

The time that the occupants of CA07 (Bews, Myall and Saxby) were deployed to the incident at the farmhouse, has never been in doubt by anyone. Even the appellate court accepted that CA07 were deployed to the scene from Witham police station at precisely 3.35am. Same philosophy was applied in the matter of PC West contacting a female operator regarding the phone at the farmhouse? So, we have two timed events, the deployment of CA07 occupants to the scene at 3.35am, which occurred prior to Jeremy contacting Chelmsford police station at 3.36am (unchallemged), and secondly, PC Wests contact with a female operator regarding the state of the phone at the scene, at 3.42am, at a time PC West still had Jeremy on the exchange line from 3.36am, onward...

You can already see chaos developing in connection with your proposition. Since, Jeremy would hardly have been contacting Chelmsford police station at 3.20am, be on hold 5 minutes before he actually speaks to PC West at 3.25am, and for the occupants of CA07 to have been deployed to the scene (3.35am) prior to Jeremy contacting Chelmsford police, or for that matter for Jeremy to still be on the line with PC West at 3.42am whilst he contacted a female operator regarding the state of the phone back at the farmhouse?

You see the problem?

Chaos!!!

So why when asked again about the time of his father ringing just after three he says,  I put it in my original statement.  I meaning me?   

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1144.0;attach=5790

[Adam]

3.10am is simply his recollection. Plus this was a time when people all had clocks with times set manually. Contrary to today when everything is synced to the internet. 

What time do you believe Nevill phoned Bamber ?

Don't forget it would have taken Sheila 1 hour - 75 minutes to do everything she certainly did, or what supporters claim she did.

Everyone would have still been alive when Nevill phoned.

[mike tesko]

He didn't say he received the call at 3.10am, he did not write his witness statement, it was written out by DC Clark who paraphrased the time of the call. Clark wrote ' at around 3.10am', which does not mean the call was at that time. Other facts establish that the call made by Neville to Jeremy occurred at around 3.25am. You can't go around plucking a time out of thin air just because it mentions a time here, there or everywhere, in isolation. Ok, lets take this example of yours and say, right the time of Nevilles call to Jeremy was at 3.10am, no doubt about it...

OK, so in isolation thats fair and dandy. But there are other related features which need to be taken into account, if we are to say, yes, the time of Nevilles call to Jeremy had been at 3.10am. So that's settled just to appease you and your proposition. First thing I want to say, is that there was only a 10 minute delay between the time Nevilles call to Jeremy got cut short. The call which Jeremy made to police at Chelmsford lasted 10 minutes, the first 5 minutes of which Jeremy was placed on hold. The occupants of CA07, that is Bews, Myall and Saxby were deployed to the scene prior to Jeremy making contact with the police at Chelmsford. PC West contacted a female operator at 3.42am whilst he had Jeremy still on the exchange line...

The time that the occupants of CA07 (Bews, Myall and Saxby) were deployed to the incident at the farmhouse, has never been in doubt by anyone. Even the appellate court accepted that CA07 were deployed to the scene from Witham police station at precisely 3.35am. Same philosophy was applied in the matter of PC West contacting a female operator regarding the phone at the farmhouse? So, we have two timed events, the deployment of CA07 occupants to the scene at 3.35am, which occurred prior to Jeremy contacting Chelmsford police station at 3.36am (unchallemged), and secondly, PC Wests contact with a female operator regarding the state of the phone at the scene, at 3.42am, at a time PC West still had Jeremy on the exchange line from 3.36am, onward...

You can already see chaos developing in connection with your proposition. Since, Jeremy would hardly have been contacting Chelmsford police station at 3.20am, be on hold 5 minutes before he actually speaks to PC West at 3.25am, and for the occupants of CA07 to have been deployed to the scene (3.35am) prior to Jeremy contacting Chelmsford police, or for that matter for Jeremy to still be on the line with PC West at 3.42am whilst he contacted a female operator regarding the state of the phone back at the farmhouse?

You see the problem?

Chaos!!!

The claim that Jeremy's call had been made at 3.26am, rather than at 3.36am, is proved to be a red herring, simply because of the accepted premise that the occupants of CA07 (namely, Bews, Myall and Saxby) were deployed to the incident (3.35am) prior to Jeremy making his call to Chelmsford police station. You do not have to be a genius to be able to work out that if the occupants of CA07 were deployed to the farmhouse at 3.35am, and that this occurred at 3.35am, that the false premise that Jeremy's call to Chelmsford had occurred any time prior to 3.35am!!! Now, there are only two choices regarding when Jeremy could have contacted the police at Chelmsford, these are 3.26am, and 3.36am. PC West, the officer who took Jeremy's call that morning, recorded the time he received Jeremy's call at 3.36am. In addition, he selected an option on the police documentation regarding the time he wrote down as 3.36am, as being the time he actually received Jeremy's call (that's two things which PC West did in recording the start of Jeremys call). Set against this, is a time of 3.26am on a (C1) Communications log filled in by Malcom Bonnet. He statyes that he completed this log at 3.26am after being contacted by PC West at this time. Lets take the matter a little further. During cross examination at Jeremy's trial, PC West agreed that prior to receiving Jeremy's call at 3.36am, that he had been in contact with Malcolm Bonnet beforehad, but he could not now remember what that was in connection with...

How remarkable, therefore, that prior to 3.36am, that Bonnett should complete his (C1) Communications log, at 3.26am, after receiving information from PC West?

We know that Jeremy did not phone Chelmsford police station until after the occupants of CA07 were deployed to the scene at 3.35am. Therefore, when prior to this PC West had contacted Malcom Bonnett which caused Bonnet to make his 3.26am log, it becomes obvious that on that earlier occasion, that PC West had reported Neville Bambers call to him, in the terms and phraseology spoken by Neville Bamber, and relayed by PC West to Malcom Bonnert as per the 3.26am (C1) Communications log...

In my view, compelling evidence that Neville Bamber was responsible for the first call to police 3.26am, and Jeremy's call to Chelmsford police station at 3.36am...

[Stephanie]

BREAKING NEWS

It appears that Poppy Ann Miller has closed the twitter account which was dedicated to supporting Jeremy. Allegedly she received a "to be signed for" communication from him after which she closed the account. Perhaps she's done all she can for him?

Can you clarify, was the to be signed for communication him expecting her to pay for postage or did he send her something and request it be signed for because he didn't trust her?

His campaign team will start to fall down like a pack of cards. He'll then start hoovering up old targets.

[Jane]

Can you clarify, was the to be signed for communication him expecting her to pay for postage or did he send her something and request it be signed for because he didn't trust her?

No, I can't Steph. I wouldn't want to speculate. It didn't occur to me that he may have wanted her to pay the postage. I'd assumed it was something that he may have been returning, signifying the end of a relationship?

[guest7363]

The claim that Jeremy's call had been made at 3.26am, rather than at 3.36am, is proved to be a red herring, simply because of the accepted premise that the occupants of CA07 (namely, Bews, Myall and Saxby) were deployed to the incident (3.35am) prior to Jeremy making his call to Chelmsford police station. You do not have to be a genius to be able to work out that if the occupants of CA07 were deployed to the farmhouse at 3.35am, and that this occurred at 3.35am, that the false premise that Jeremy's call to Chelmsford had occurred any time prior to 3.35am!!! Now, there are only two choices regarding when Jeremy could have contacted the police at Chelmsford, these are 3.26am, and 3.36am. PC West, the officer who took Jeremy's call that morning, recorded the time he received Jeremy's call at 3.36am. In addition, he selected an option on the police documentation regarding the time he wrote down as 3.36am, as being the time he actually received Jeremy's call (that's two things which PC West did in recording the start of Jeremys call). Set against this, is a time of 3.26am on a (C1) Communications log filled in by Malcom Bonnet. He statyes that he completed this log at 3.26am after being contacted by PC West at this time. Lets take the matter a little further. During cross examination at Jeremy's trial, PC West agreed that prior to receiving Jeremy's call at 3.36am, that he had been in contact with Malcolm Bonnet beforehad, but he could not now remember what that was in connection with...

How remarkable, therefore, that prior to 3.36am, that Bonnett should complete his (C1) Communications log, at 3.26am, after receiving information from PC West?

We know that Jeremy did not phone Chelmsford police station until after the occupants of CA07 were deployed to the scene at 3.35am. Therefore, when prior to this PC West had contacted Malcom Bonnett which caused Bonnet to make his 3.26am log, it becomes obvious that on that earlier occasion, that PC West had reported Neville Bambers call to him, in the terms and phraseology spoken by Neville Bamber, and relayed by PC West to Malcom Bonnert as per the 3.26am (C1) Communications log...

In my view, compelling evidence that Neville Bamber was responsible for the first call to police 3.26am, and Jeremy's call to Chelmsford police station at 3.36am...

Mike why was CAO7 meeting Jeremy if they were responding to the Neville call?  Would not Bews have reacted differently and gone straight to the farm house, don't forget they were responding to a call from WHF and not Jeremy?

How come when Jeremy is asked why he phoned Julie he said "at the time I was probably pissed off from the reaction of the police and needed a friendly ear"   This means he is now saying he phoned Chelmsford before Julie?
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1144.0;attach=5825

[David1819]

What time do you believe Nevill phoned Bamber ?

Don't forget it would have taken Sheila 1 hour - 75 minutes to do everything she certainly did, or what supporters claim she did.

Everyone would have still been alive when Nevill phoned.

I does not take over an hour to shoot four people. It can be done in under 5 minutes.

[guest7363]

No, I can't Steph. I wouldn't want to speculate. It didn't occur to me that he may have wanted her to pay the postage. I'd assumed it was something that he may have been returning, signifying the end of a relationship?

She probably had enough like Daisy Jane?

[Adam]

I does not take over an hour to shoot four people. It can be done in under 5 minutes.

Sheila had to do the following -


Shoot Nevill four times upstairs.

Brutally beat Nevill downstairs when he puts up a tremendous fight for life.

Shoot Nevill three more times.

Take the silencer off and put it away.

Position Nevill above a coal scuttle.

Burn Nevill's back. Three times.

Shoot June several times in bed.

Shoot June out of bed.

Shoot the twins several times. 

Load the rifle. Twice.

Chamber the rifle. Twice.

Shower.

Change.

Get the bible.

Write a suicide note.

Read the bible.

Shoot herself once.

Go downstairs.


Some of these are things supporters have claimed Sheila did. Feel free to exclude these.

[David1819]

Sheila had to do the following -


Shoot Nevill four times upstairs.

Brutally beat Nevill downstairs when he puts up a tremendous fight for life.

Stop right there. How do you explain the evidence of Vanezis and DI Cook?

[mike tesko]

Mike why was CAO7 meeting Jeremy if they were responding to the Neville call?  This is because the occupants of CA07 were updated by PC West whilst CA07 were already en route to the scene from a starting point prior to Jeremy contacting Chelmsford police station. What is also interesting is that when Bews, Myall and Jeremy went into the grounds for an 'eyeba'', and they saw the silhoetted figure moving around at the main bedroom window, that Bews thought it might have been Sheila they had been observing, or Neville Bamber. Would not Bews have reacted differently and gone straight to the farm house, don't forget they were responding to a call from WHF and not Jeremy? No, because as I have said, whilst the occupants of CA07 were en route to the incident at whf, they were updated by radio from PC West that the son (Jeremy) had called in after they had already been deployed to the incident, and that PC West had sent Jeremy to the scene, telling him that he would be met there by police officers who had already been deployed to the incident were currently en route there. The other interesting thing worthy of note, was that PC West had told Jeremy not to approach the farmhouse until he was met there by the police which had already been deployed there. What is even more startling is that there was a 5 minute delay at the beginning of Jeremy's 3.36am call to Chelmsford police station, so that PC West could not have given these instructions to Jeremy, except between 3.41 and 3.46am when Jeremy had set off to get to the farmhouse. In comparison, by the time Jeremy was leaving to get to the farmhouse from around 3.46am, the occupants were still minmutes away from arriving at whf at 3.48am. What this means, if I am right, is that somewhere between 3.46am and 3.48am, PC West passed a key message to the occupants of Ca07 informing them that Jeremy would be attending the farmhouse to rendezvous with them - such a message could only have been passed to CA07 regarding this in that window of opportunity between, as I say 3.46am, and 3.48am, otherwise, like you suggest Bews and Myall would have approached the farmhouse, without waiting for Jeremy to arrive, acting out the information provided to police by Neville at the earlier time, 3.26am...

How come when Jeremy is asked why he phoned Julie he said "at the time I was probably pissed off from the reaction of the police and needed a friendly ear" He was referring to the earlier none response he got when trying to contact Witham police station...  This means he is now saying he phoned Chelmsford before Julie? He tried phoning Witham police station before he called Julie at 3.30am, and he called Chelmsfird police station at 3.36am, which was after his 3.30am call to Julie...
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1144.0;attach=5825

[mike tesko]

So why when asked again about the time of his father ringing just after three he says,  I put it in my original statement.  I meaning me?    The wording in his witness statement is, 'At around 3.10am', it's a generalisation, handwritten in DC Clarks own hand writing. It doesn't mean he received the call from Neville at 3.10am. I have demonstrated in the simplest way imaginable as to why Nevilles call the Jeremy could not have occurred at 3.10am. Just to recap, Jeremy stated that it took 10 minutes maximum for him to phone Chelmsford police station after Nevilles call to him. If this was true, then Neville couldn't possibly have called Jeremy at 3.10am, because add 10 minutes to 3.10am, and it produces a time of 3.20am, when Jeremy phoned Chelmsford police station, but if that were true, how could the occupants of CA07 have been deployed to the scene (3.35am) prior to Jeremy making that call to Chelmsford police station? Jeremy's call to Chelmsford police stion could only have been made after 3.35am, not before it. As a result, the 3.36am timing of Jeremy's call received by PC West was at 3.36am, recorded by the time PC West recorded (3.36am) with the benefit of two actions, for example, the actual recording of the time as 3.36am, and the option PC West selected on the paperwork designating the option that 3.36am, was the time he had received information recorded in the police communications log at that time...

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1144.0;attach=5790

[Adam]

Stop right there. How do you explain the evidence of Vanezis and DI Cook?

There is no question there was a brutal fight for life. The kitchen scene and Nevill's horrific injuries show this. Threads already created.

Anyway, my question was what time do you think Nevill rang Bamber. Bearing in mind the 18 things on my list would take over an hour for Sheila to do.

I will generously agree the massacre started directly after Nevill hung up.

Feel free to remove some of the things on the list. They are claims made by supporters.


In my view, the earlier Nevill called Bamber, the better. As it gives Sheila more time to do everything.

A 3:10am call gives her 38 minutes, providing Nevill did not call the police. Which is possible providing several things on my list are removed. However it does not explain what Bamber himself was doing between 3:10am - 3:26/36am.