Author Topic: 80 point timeline (attributed to JBCampaign)  (Read 18136 times)

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Offline Steve_uk

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Re: 80 point timeline (attributed to JBCampaign)
« Reply #150 on: January 07, 2017, 02:09:AM »
What clips are you referring to? The timeline is in an article by author Ben Johnson (BenW_Johnson on twitter), but he doesn't state where he got all the details from, and some are inaccurate.
I was referring mainly to the ITN clips of the case.

Offline Reader

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Re: 80 point timeline (attributed to JBCampaign)
« Reply #151 on: January 07, 2017, 02:36:AM »
I doubt that anything like as many as 80 times were mentioned in ITN clips relating to the case.

Offline Caroline

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Re: 80 point timeline (attributed to JBCampaign)
« Reply #152 on: January 07, 2017, 09:28:AM »
What clips are you referring to? The timeline is in an article by author Ben Johnson (BenW_Johnson on twitter), but he doesn't state where he got all the details from, and some are inaccurate.

I think Steve just made a mistake.
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Offline lookout

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Re: 80 point timeline (attributed to JBCampaign)
« Reply #153 on: January 07, 2017, 09:52:AM »
I think Steve just made a mistake.




Probably tired. He'd been working all day too,so allowances are made ?

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: 80 point timeline (attributed to JBCampaign)
« Reply #154 on: January 07, 2017, 07:31:PM »
I'm not sure what all this is alluding to. I was only mentioning that court clips of the Bamber case are hard to come by.

Offline Caroline

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Re: 80 point timeline (attributed to JBCampaign)
« Reply #155 on: January 07, 2017, 08:51:PM »
I'm not sure what all this is alluding to. I was only mentioning that court clips of the Bamber case are hard to come by.

Just Reader being pedantic Steve, it was an obvious mistake.
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Offline Roch

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Re: 80 point timeline (attributed to JBCampaign)
« Reply #156 on: January 08, 2017, 05:57:PM »
What clips are you referring to?

ITN Source clips. Trial and appeal era footage. Just Google ITN Source Jeremy Bamber Leuchars

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: 80 point timeline (attributed to JBCampaign)
« Reply #157 on: January 08, 2017, 06:13:PM »
ITN Source clips. Trial and appeal era footage. Just Google ITN Source Jeremy Bamber Leuchars
There's one here for starters.  http://www.itnsource.com/shotlist//ITN/1986/10/15/AS151086010/?s=jeremy+bamber&st=0&pn=1

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: 80 point timeline (attributed to JBCampaign)
« Reply #158 on: January 08, 2017, 06:16:PM »
..and I hope the Jeremy-is-innocent crew take time to reflect on this one:  http://www.itnsource.com/shotlist//ITN/1986/10/28/AS281086004/?s=jeremy+bamber&st=0&pn=1

Offline lookout

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Re: 80 point timeline (attributed to JBCampaign)
« Reply #159 on: January 08, 2017, 06:38:PM »
Oh Lord,this old laptop won't load---------it needs a handle attaching to it,to crank it.

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Re: 80 point timeline (attributed to JBCampaign)
« Reply #160 on: January 12, 2017, 06:04:AM »
01 * 6 Aug 18:00-18:39 Approx - Jeremy finishes work at White
House Farm where there is a family meal ongoing. A discussion is taking place
between June, Nevill and Sheila about what help Sheila needs.
The use of fostering again is a central theme.

02 * 21:30 - Jeremy leaves WHF and returns to his nearby
Goldhanger home, about three miles away.

03 * 21:30 - Back at WHF Barbara Wilson, Farm Secretary,
telephones and speaks to Nevill Bamber; claiming he was "short"
with her. She was left with the impression her call had interrupted
an argument.

04 * 21:50-22:00 - Jeremy makes a telephone call to Julie at her home.
Unbeknown to Jeremy, Julie has been smoking marijuana and she
is drowsy.

05 * 22:00 - Pamela Boutflour, June’s sister, telephones White House
Farm and speaks to both June and Sheila. Pam stated that Sheila
just gave “yes and no” replies to her questions and abruptly handed
the phone back to June. June explained to Pam that she was “very
worried about Sheila and that she would like me to see her and
form an opinion about her health.” From the discussion with June,
Pam reached the conclusion that Sheila was “acting oddly”

06 * 23:00 Approx - Having watched television, Jeremy goes to bed.

07 * 7 Aug 03:15 Approx - Nevill telephones his son, Jeremy, stating
his sister Sheila had "gone crazy" and “had the gun." He also said
“Please come over.” The phone then went dead. It had either been
unplugged or left off the hook.

08 * 03:20 Approx - Jeremy then makes several attempts to call
Nevill back using 'redial' and got the engaged tone. Unbeknown to
Jeremy this was because Nevill had realised that he needed police
assistance with Sheila.

09 * 03:20 - Nevill telephones police stating that his daughter, Sheila,
had "got hold” of one of his guns. The call is noted and titled
"daughter gone berserk." Nevill referred to Sheila's age as 26 years.

10 * 03:26 - PC West telephones Malcolm Bonnett “On the internal
police line” to relay the call he has just received from Nevill
Bamber.

11 * 03:30 Approx - PC Saxby receives a radio message, stating he
should attend at White House Farm.

12 * 03:35 - Police vehicle CA7 is dispatched to WHF.

13 * 03:36 - PC West told DCI Dickinson in November 1986, that he
called Malcolm Bonnett (discussing a call from Jeremy to Police
about the WHF incident) at this time. However, in his 16th
September statement he claims to have not actually received
Jeremy Bamber’s call until 3:36. PC West also claimed in his 9th
of September statement that Jeremy called him at 3:26. Jeremy's
call to the police refers to Sheila's age at 27 - which was accurate.

14 * 03:36 - PC Norcup and PC Cracknell are dispatched in police
vehicle CA5.

16 * 03:36 - Police vehicle CA05 is dispatched to WHF, according
to PC West’s Log.

17 * 03:38 - Police suggest to Jeremy he should meet them at WHF
and, before doing so, he telephones Julie. The time of this call is
strongly contested by six different people. The time of the call
gets earlier in each witness statement made by prosecution
witnesses, some claimed as early as 2:59. Under cross-examination
most of the witnesses said the call could well have been closer to
3:30. The variance moots the point and suggests the possibility that
other house members might have smoked marijuana with Julie that
evening.

18 * 03:42 - Jeremy leaves his cottage and makes his way to White
House Farm.

19 * 03:48 - Vehicle CA07 arrives at the end of Pages Lane at the
junction with Tollesbury Road. Jeremy then arrives at the same
location and is, from this time onward, in the company of police.

20 * 03:49 - Officers Bews and Myall along with Jeremy exit their
cars at the junction of Tollesbury Road and have a short discussion,
after which a decision is made by police to drive further down the
lane and park by the farm cottages.

21 * 03:50 - PC Batchelor is attributed as writing a log at the scene
from 03:50 onwards but he didn’t arrive at the scene until 04:25am.

22 * 03:55 - Officers Bews, Myall and Jeremy begin a 'perimeter
check' of the farmhouse, during which PC Myall indicates he can
see "movement" in an upstairs window. A Tactical Firearms Unit
(TFU) is contacted. The Major Incident Report at the scene goes
as far as to list what was seen as an 'Unidentified male.' Bews
makes a situation report to HQ over the radio.

23 * 04:00 - PC Saxby told the Dickinson Enquiry that he started
keeping a log at this time. In addition, he also states that he started
another, separate log which detailed who arrived and who left
White House Farm. This log has never been disclosed.

24 * 04:09 - Police report at this time that there are "no signs of life"
within the house - keep in mind that at this time that police noted:
"...all lights on in premises." This report was made as a result of PS
Bews making a second recce of the house. He told the Dickinson
Enquiry that he may have gone back a third time.

25 * 04:22 - PC Norcup and PC Cracknell arrive at the Farm in car
CA5.

26 * 04:23 - PC Batchelor and PC Lay arrive at the Farm in car CA6.

27 * 04:58 - The Firearms Unit (TFU) arrives at WHF along with a
dog unit; police vehicles QK26, QZO5, and QK50. The vehicles
contained: QK26 – PC Adams and 5 TFU Officers QK50 –
PC Mackintosh - QK05 – Dog Unit-PC Mercer.

28 * 05:25 - The Firearms team are recorded as being "in conversation
with a person from inside the farm." Jeremy is asked at this time
what Sheila would like to talk about as police arranged to engage
her in conversation.

29 * 05:29 - Police logs note that a "challenge to persons inside the
house [was] met with no response."

30 05:42 - A relief radio operator, PC Nicholas Milbank, takes over
from Malcolm Bonnett. PC Milbank didn’t make a statement in
1985 and it wasn’t until he was interviewed on 18.08.2002. that his
identity was revealed to the Defence. He has never disclosed what
he heard from inside White House Farm over the open telephone
line. The open line was also being recorded yet neither this recording
nor PC Milbank’s testimony is made known to the Jury and
has never been disclosed to the Defence


31 * 05:45 - PC West records that GPO (Post Office) are asked to
check the phone line at White House Farm. By 1985 this would
have actually been tasked to British Telecom.

32 * 05:47 - PC West is informed that the "phone at the scene [is]
engaged." However more than two hours prior at 03.42, West had
been told: "phone had been left off the hook."

33 * 05:50 - PC Myall starts a log but it has been disclosed and
inaccurately attributed to PC Saxby. Myall told Dickinson that he
drove car CA7 into the farmyard and began Log 12.

34 * 06:00 - Paramedics called. Ambulance 051 and 2 crew are
dispatched.

35 * 06:09 - Emergency service operators, as well as GPO/BT
operators now monitor the telephone line to White House Farm.
Jean Rowe a BT operator continues to monitor the phone
intermittently. This was being recorded onto tape but the tapes
have never been disclosed.

36 * 06:19 - PC Chaplin and PC Dixon arrive at White House Farm
in car CG32.

37 * 06:20 - Further paramedics called to the scene. Ambulance 070
and 2 crew are dispatched.

38 * 06:42 - PC Hall and PC Manners arrive at the scene in van QK23.
Also Inspector Montgomery and five TFU officers.

39 * 06:44 - Chief Inspector Clark arrives in car CG/10.

40 * 06:45 - APS Manners states that PC Collins looked into the
kitchen through the window before they broke into the house and
“reported seeing what he thought was the body of a female just
inside the kitchen door,” but apparently Nevill Bamber was found
by the Aga cooker.

41 * 07:00 - Curtains in Master Bedroom recorded as Closed. Lights
are recorded as being off in the master bedroom.

42 * 07:00 approx. - Ch. /Insp. Gibbons and PC Panting arrive at the
scene.

43 * 07:02 - A/PS Moule and five more TFU Officers arrive at the
scene in transit vehicle QK24. Thirty-two Police Officers and four
paramedics are already at the scene.

44 * 07:10 Approx - PC Brown sees a rifle in the window of the 'box'
room, adjacent to the master bedroom between 7:00am and
9:00am.

45 * 07:15 - Curtains in the Master Bedroom now recorded as open,
with the light turned on.

46 * 07:15 - CSI Harris and PC Reed arrive at the Farm in car CA02.

47 * 07:20 - Further Paramedics called to the scene (approximate).

48 * 07:30 - Paramedics called to relieve one of the earlier crews. In
all 9 arrive at the scene.

49 * 07:30 - WPC Jeapes sees a rifle in the window of the 'box' room,
adjacent to the master bedroom between 7:30am and 9:00am. She
is located independently from PC Brown. There are no photographs
taken of this room from inside or outside the house.

50 * 07:34 - Police, using “stealth” tactics, enter the farmhouse by
smashing down a door with a sledgehammer. PC Rozga states: "I
looked just around the door and saw [an] overturned chair [and]
against the wall was the body of a male." Two different versions
of his statement exist to omit the re-positioning of Nevill Bamber’s
body.

51 * 07:34 - Having entered the house via the kitchen, police radio
through the discovery of one dead male and one dead female.
These would have been the bodies of Sheila and Nevill. The raid
team wore open microphones and were recorded. The tapes or
transcripts have never been disclosed.

52 * 07:36 - Reports made of “movement and voices” being heard by
police over the open telephone line as police broke in.

53 * 07:37 - One of the first raid officers into the house, PC Hall says,
“I immediately heard a noise upstairs and began to challenge up the
stairs I was covering, I was calling to Sheila Bamber to make her
whereabouts known to me.” At the 2002 Appeal the same officer
stated that the raid team operated using stealth tactics in silence
using hand signals. PC Rozga added: "I then heard someone from
the kitchen area warning another person not to tread in blood."

54 * 07:37 - After other officers entered the house the scene would
appear to have been altered because Nevill was reported to have
been near the Aga cooker seated precariously on the back of an
overturned chair.

55 * 07.38 - Another Essex Police communication, from Inspector
Norman, notes the discovery of "one dead male and one dead
female... on entry to premises." The two bodies could only have
been those of Nevill and Sheila given it is undisputed that June
and the twins were found upstairs.

56 * 07:47 - The police give an order for the recording of the open
telephone line at White House Farm - being monitored by
emergency services - to be halted.

57 * 07:48 - Police request a surgeon to attend the scene to examine
two bodies, suggesting again that two bodies (Sheila and Nevill)
were found downstairs.

58 * 07:55 - Police finally ‘officially’ search the upstairs of WHF.
The ambulance Commander, Mr Nottage arrived at the scene.

59 * 08:00 - After 8:00am, two firearms officers say in statements
ammunition and bandoliers were on the staircase leading from the
kitchen to the box room. Neither this room, the staircase, the
ammunition or bandoliers are photographed.

60 * 08:10 - After a “thorough” search of the house, Police record
the discovery of “three further bodies” These would have been the
bodies of June, Nicholas and Daniel. The finding of "three further
bodies" supports the argument that two bodies (Nevill and Sheila)
were found downstairs, as it is undisputed that five persons in total
had died.

61 * 08:10 approx. - PC Manners records that he spent considerable
time with the body of June Bamber, who was found with her feet
to the door. Curiously, the crime scene photos picture her with her
head against the door.

62 * 08:25 - Dr Craig arrives.

63 * 08:40 - PC Chaplin starts keeping two logs. One of these is
recording who went in and out of the back door at WHF. This is
separate to the log noted at 04:00am in relation to Saxby.
PC Shoulders keeps a log at the front door of the house recording
who enters and leaves. Neither log has been disclosed.

64 * 08:45 - Dr Craig, CI Gibbons and CSI Harris all state Sheila has
one gunshot wound.

65 * 08:45 - PC Wright, Coroner's officer arrives.

66 * 08:51 - DI Cook and DC Bird arrive in car QP03.

67 * 09:00 - Van QK22 arrives with six further TFU officers plus a
sergeant to “keep away” members of the press. There were already
seventy Police Officers at the scene. It is odd that they needed
extra Firearms Officers to attend after the house had been searched.

68 * 09:14 - DCI Jones and DC Clarke arrive in CID car.

69 * 09:16 - DI Miller and DS Jones arrive in CID car.

70 * 09:16 - 'Mystery' SOC Officer DC Henderson arrives at the scene
with DS Davidson. This was later changed to DC Hammersley -
DC Henderson never makes a statement about his attendance at the
scene.

71 * 9:30 - DI Miller describes Sheila as having been found with the
rifle “by her right side,” and not with the rifle across her body, as
it is seen in crime scene photographs taken after 10:00am

72 * 09:56 - At this time PC Chaplin ceases keeping his record,
stating: “I was instructed by someone (don’t know who) to stop
recording who was entering the house, as officers were by then
using two entrances and it was impossible for me to record
correctly who was coming and going.” The lists which kept up to
date times of those who entered the house have not been disclosed.
PC Bird requests the gun resting on Sheila to be made safe.

73 * 10:00 - Photographing the scene commences in the kitchen. No
explanation has ever been given as to why SOC officers were made
to wait 44 minutes from the time of their arrival at 09:16 before
being allowed into the house.

74 * 10:20 - A photograph shows Sheila and June, with the bedside
clock confirming the time.

75 * 10:20 - Seven crime scene photographs show Sheila’s body
with her hand and the gun in different positions. In one, the gun
is on Sheila’s body but another, taken just minutes later, (as the
photographer moved down the stairs) shows the gun resting in
the window when it should have still been on Sheila’s body until
11:10 according to DI Cook.

76 * 10:40 - Two more teams of Firearms officers arrive in two
vehicles at the scene for training. DCI Dickinson notes in his 1986
investigation that officers were trained at the scene.

77 * 10:50 - Photographing the scene finishes and the bodies are
placed into bags. They await removal from the scene for the post
mortem’s to be carried out.

78 * 11:10 - 'Officially', the rifle was moved from Sheila for the first
time and made safe. PC Bird, the photographer, appears to forget
to take photographs of five of the rooms in the house including
those with firearms present inside.

79 * 14:15 -PC Chaplin’s second log finishes.

80 * 15:50 - The log added to by the 'relief' radio operator from 05:42
comes to an end. PC Shoulders takes over the log at the scene but
the radio operator up until 15:50, PC Milbank never makes a
statement for Jeremy's trial - it was simply assumed that Malcolm
Bonnett monitored the radio throughout the incident. He did not
inform the Jury that he went off duty at 05:40 that morning.
Point 22 Roch, I think you have always been under the impression that the tactical fire arms unit was called earlier than when Bews made the request?   If you read Adams report he tells you, at 4.00am he was on operation (plain clothes) in Colchester when he heard radio talk of a possible fire arms incident at Tolleshunt Darcy, so he contacts HQ to tell her that they were a fire arms unit and were available.  He goes on to say after that he didn't hear anything for a while.  So at this point no request had been made for Tactical fire arms team to be deployed.  It was only when Bews made the request a little while later that they was deployed, Adams then had to remind the operator they would have to return back to HQ to draw weapons?

I don't even think the dog unit was deployed, all that happened was a dog handler who was at HQ OFFERED to direct them to the scene, so in a nutshell no dog unit was sent for, yes one dog handler went but wasn't requested.
It will not let me paste PS Adams COLP report for some reason?
 
So how I read it, because of radio talk (what Bamber had said about Sheila going crazy she has the gun, in his phone call) PS Adams hears this over the radio, offers his services and waits for the request to attend the scene, so it was a while after 4.00am that the request actually went out, this would have been when Bews had made the assessment and feed from Bamber?  Would they have made a request for firearms if they had seen someone in the house at this early stage?  I don't think they would, i they would have investigated it further.

It's possible that the 3.55/ 4.00am was used as a reference point to when they first heard the radio chatter?

Offline Stephanie

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Re: 80 point timeline (attributed to JBCampaign)
« Reply #161 on: January 12, 2017, 07:04:AM »
Point 22 Roch, I think you have always been under the impression that the tactical fire arms unit was called earlier than when Bews made the request?   If you read Adams report he tells you, at 4.00am he was on operation (plain clothes) in Colchester when he heard radio talk of a possible fire arms incident at Tolleshunt Darcy, so he contacts HQ to tell her that they were a fire arms unit and were available.  He goes on to say after that he didn't hear anything for a while.  So at this point no request had been made for Tactical fire arms team to be deployed.  It was only when Bews made the request a little while later that they was deployed, Adams then had to remind the operator they would have to return back to HQ to draw weapons?

I don't even think the dog unit was deployed, all that happened was a dog handler who was at HQ OFFERED to direct them to the scene, so in a nutshell no dog unit was sent for, yes one dog handler went but wasn't requested.
It will not let me paste PS Adams COLP report for some reason?
 
So how I read it, because of radio talk (what Bamber had said about Sheila going crazy she has the gun, in his phone call) PS Adams hears this over the radio, offers his services and waits for the request to attend the scene, so it was a while after 4.00am that the request actually went out, this would have been when Bews had made the assessment and feed from Bamber?  Would they have made a request for firearms if they had seen someone in the house at this early stage?  I don't think they would, i they would have investigated it further.

It's possible that the 3.55/ 4.00am was used as a reference point to when they first heard the radio chatter?

Great post Justice!
“The only people who are mad at you for telling the truth are those people who are living a lie. Keep telling the truth"

Offline Jane

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Re: 80 point timeline (attributed to JBCampaign)
« Reply #162 on: January 12, 2017, 07:24:AM »
Point 22 Roch, I think you have always been under the impression that the tactical fire arms unit was called earlier than when Bews made the request?   If you read Adams report he tells you, at 4.00am he was on operation (plain clothes) in Colchester when he heard radio talk of a possible fire arms incident at Tolleshunt Darcy, so he contacts HQ to tell her that they were a fire arms unit and were available.  He goes on to say after that he didn't hear anything for a while.  So at this point no request had been made for Tactical fire arms team to be deployed.  It was only when Bews made the request a little while later that they was deployed, Adams then had to remind the operator they would have to return back to HQ to draw weapons?

I don't even think the dog unit was deployed, all that happened was a dog handler who was at HQ OFFERED to direct them to the scene, so in a nutshell no dog unit was sent for, yes one dog handler went but wasn't requested.
It will not let me paste PS Adams COLP report for some reason?
 
So how I read it, because of radio talk (what Bamber had said about Sheila going crazy she has the gun, in his phone call) PS Adams hears this over the radio, offers his services and waits for the request to attend the scene, so it was a while after 4.00am that the request actually went out, this would have been when Bews had made the assessment and feed from Bamber?  Would they have made a request for firearms if they had seen someone in the house at this early stage?  I don't think they would, i they would have investigated it further.

It's possible that the 3.55/ 4.00am was used as a reference point to when they first heard the radio chatter?

Well balanced and concise, Justice. Clarity in the midst of confusion.

Offline Caroline

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Re: 80 point timeline (attributed to JBCampaign)
« Reply #163 on: January 12, 2017, 11:36:AM »
Point 22 Roch, I think you have always been under the impression that the tactical fire arms unit was called earlier than when Bews made the request?   If you read Adams report he tells you, at 4.00am he was on operation (plain clothes) in Colchester when he heard radio talk of a possible fire arms incident at Tolleshunt Darcy, so he contacts HQ to tell her that they were a fire arms unit and were available.  He goes on to say after that he didn't hear anything for a while.  So at this point no request had been made for Tactical fire arms team to be deployed.  It was only when Bews made the request a little while later that they was deployed, Adams then had to remind the operator they would have to return back to HQ to draw weapons?

I don't even think the dog unit was deployed, all that happened was a dog handler who was at HQ OFFERED to direct them to the scene, so in a nutshell no dog unit was sent for, yes one dog handler went but wasn't requested.
It will not let me paste PS Adams COLP report for some reason?
 
So how I read it, because of radio talk (what Bamber had said about Sheila going crazy she has the gun, in his phone call) PS Adams hears this over the radio, offers his services and waits for the request to attend the scene, so it was a while after 4.00am that the request actually went out, this would have been when Bews had made the assessment and feed from Bamber?  Would they have made a request for firearms if they had seen someone in the house at this early stage?  I don't think they would, i they would have investigated it further.

It's possible that the 3.55/ 4.00am was used as a reference point to when they first heard the radio chatter?

That all makes excellent sense to me Justice. But where is the major incident report that lists an 'unidentified male' was spotted?
Few people have the imagination for reality

Offline Caroline

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Re: 80 point timeline (attributed to JBCampaign)
« Reply #164 on: January 12, 2017, 11:52:AM »
Just noticed this. Supporters often quote the first log entry (below - following on from Bonnett's log) to  suggest that the TFG were 'in conversation' with someone inside the house, even though it also states that a 'challenge was met with no response'. However, there were two logs being kept, the second followed on from West's log and the same incident mentions nothing about a 'conversation' - showing it was just an unfortunate choice of word.

Clearly, the TFG 'tried' to contact someone inside the house, using a loud hailer but given that they were all dead,  the 'challenge was met with no response'. Yet another incidence of a word being twisted to form a conspiracy. Had  a  'two way conversation' taken place, it would have been important enough for BOTH logs to report it.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2017, 12:46:PM by Caroline »
Few people have the imagination for reality