Giovani's Spy Ring Murder plot - a new lead...

[sherlock]

According to what you say/the spin you put on it. Who created you judge, jury and executioner?

Am i wrong what i say about Julie ? - NO
Am i wrong what i say about Anthony - NO
Am i wrong what i say about Sweeney and co - NO

You might have sympathy with Julie or Anthony but their behaviour at that time has left them under a permanent cloud of suspicion ...

Julie has no excuse at all whichever of the two possibilities is true - she should be the first to accept her guilt and the consequences - we all know she was very lucky indeed not to be charged for protecting a child killer from capture ...

Anthony might have lied just because he had breached his firearms license - or else he lied because he committed the murders himself or got someone to do it for him - again he should be the first to accept his guilt and the consequences ...

These 2 can not behave like that in a child murder case and expect to be treated as if it never happened ...

When children get murdered everyone around at the time should be more than happy that every single possibility is being actively considered including possibilities that include them ...

Better that every possibility is looked into rather than a couple of adults feelings are spared - or do you see it differently ?

I am not a Judge or a Jury member or an executioner - but i am experienced in life ...

I will bet my life that there is something more to this case than we currently know ...

What it is i cannot be sure yet but i do not care about adults feelings more than i care about the life of children ...

If a child killer has escaped justice then other children's life's are in very serious danger ...

Anthony and Julie's feelings are not more important than this to me ...

And neither of theM is innocent or blameless in this affair - far from it ...
Why do you wish to protect their feelings so much ?

Do you think they deserve your protective feelings ?
I certainly don't think they do ...

[sherlock]

I thought it was RB who committed perjury.

I've never understood this. Anyone could work out & it was known by everyone that if Bamber was convicted, the relatives would benefit financially. So why did RB/AP apparently say in court he wouldn't ?

The Jury did not have a clue who would get the money if Bamber was convicted ...
They thought it was possible RB and family might ...
That is why they asked ...

Robert Boutflour deliberately misled the Jury and also committed perjury.
His answer was "the truth" (technically)
But the oath he took before God was to tell the truth AND the whole truth.
He did not tell the whole  truth and he knew he was misleading the Jury when he did it.

He misled the Jury because he was desperate to see Jeremy convicted ...

Was this so him and his family could save themselves financially and make a fortune ?
Was it because he was sure Jeremy was guilty ?
Was it because he was involved in the murders himself ?

Who knows which of these reasons it was - but he very seriously and deliberately misled the Jury ...
They asked the question because they suspected he was lying about Jeremy ...
He deliberately misled the Jury and that is perjury ...

[Jane]

Am i wrong what i say about Julie ? - NO
Am i wrong what i say about Anthony - NO
Am i wrong what i say about Sweeney and co - NO

You might have sympathy with Julie or Anthony but their behaviour at that time has left them under a permanent cloud of suspicion ...

Julie has no excuse at all whichever of the two possibilities is true - she should be the first to accept her guilt and the consequences - we all know she was very lucky indeed not to be charged for protecting a child killer from capture ...

Anthony might have lied just because he had breached his firearms license - or else he lied because he committed the murders himself or got someone to do it for him - again he should be the first to accept his guilt and the consequences ...

These 2 can not behave like that in a child murder case and expect to be treated as if it never happened ...

When children get murdered everyone around at the time should be more than happy that every single possibility is being actively considered including possibilities that include them ...

Better that every possibility is looked into rather than a couple of adults feelings are spared - or do you see it differently ?

I am not a Judge or a Jury member or an executioner - but i am experienced in life ...

I will bet my life that there is something more to this case than we currently know ...

What it is i cannot be sure yet but i do not care about adults feelings more than i care about the life of children ...

If a child killer has escaped justice then other children's life's are in very serious danger ...

Anthony and Julie's feelings are not more important than this to me ...

And neither of theM is innocent or blameless in this affair - far from it ...
Why do you wish to protect their feelings so much ?

Do you think they deserve your protective feelings ?
I certainly don't think they do ...

If the law decides it's in no one's best interests to prosecute someone, what right do you have to make it their fault. What do you imagine Julie was going to do -indeed, what might YOU have done at 20 years old and faced with seeing your future in tatters? Would you have laid down on the floor and begged them to prosecute you? As for Anthony? You seem to be the only one who's shouting his guilt. You seem to be determined to ruin the life of two people who, thus far, have nothing against them, save your accusations. You may "bet you life" but it seems to me that it's nothing more than prurient interest on your part.

[sherlock]

The Jury did not have a clue who would get the money if Bamber was convicted ...
They thought it was possible RB and family might ...
That is why they asked ...

Robert Boutflour deliberately misled the Jury and also committed perjury.
His answer was "the truth" (technically)
But the oath he took before God was to tell the truth AND the whole truth.
He did not tell the whole  truth and he knew he was misleading the Jury when he did it.

He misled the Jury because he was desperate to see Jeremy convicted ...

Was this so him and his family could save themselves financially and make a fortune ?
Was it because he was sure Jeremy was guilty ?
Was it because he was involved in the murders himself ?

Who knows which of these reasons it was - but he very seriously and deliberately misled the Jury ...
They asked the question because they suspected he was lying about Jeremy ...
He deliberately misled the Jury and that is perjury ...

I am sure that Robert Boutflour, David Boutflour, Anthony Pargeter and Julie Mugford all told significant lies to the Police and/or Jury during this case ...

Do you see why i am a bit suspicious of them and why i wonder what the exact nature of their involvement was ?

Even if Julie story was true she lied to everyone involved for weeks to protect a child killer before then telling the truth - alternatively her whole story is a pack of lies engineered by one or more of the relatives ...

[Adam]

The Jury did not have a clue who would get the money if Bamber was convicted ...
They thought it was possible RB and family might ...
That is why they asked ...

Robert Boutflour deliberately misled the Jury and also committed perjury.
His answer was "the truth" (technically)
But the oath he took before God was to tell the truth AND the whole truth.
He did not tell the whole  truth and he knew he was misleading the Jury when he did it.

He misled the Jury because he was desperate to see Jeremy convicted ...

Was this so him and his family could save themselves financially and make a fortune ?
Was it because he was sure Jeremy was guilty ?
Was it because he was involved in the murders himself ?

Who knows which of these reasons it was - but he very seriously and deliberately misled the Jury ...
They asked the question because they suspected he was lying about Jeremy ...
He deliberately misled the Jury and that is perjury ...

The relatives were already rich. So didn't need to save themselves financially.

So it was RB, not AP.

I doubt that RB was clever enough to technically tell the truth but still mislead the jury. If he did attempt this, it is up to the defence lawyer to pressurise RB.

[sherlock]

If the law decides it's in no one's best interests to prosecute someone, what right do you have to make it their fault. What do you imagine Julie was going to do -indeed, what might YOU have done at 20 years old and faced with seeing your future in tatters? Would you have laid down on the floor and begged them to prosecute you? As for Anthony? You seem to be the only one who's shouting his guilt. You seem to be determined to ruin the life of two people who, thus far, have nothing against them, save your accusations. You may "bet you life" but it seems to me that it's nothing more than prurient interest on your part.

The law is very very often an ass (and sometimes very very corrupt) ...
Morally i get your point about Julie ...
But if i had lied like she has undoubtedly done then i would accept peoples suspicion of me for the rest of my life ...
I am not the only one to be suspicious of Anthony ....
For example in 1991 Jeremy was accusing him of being the murderer ...
And they were virtually brothers so Jeremy knew Anthony well ...
Jeremy also accused the Boutflours of planting the silencer ...
Again he knew them well ...
By pleading not guilty he called Julie a liar ...
He would have known for sure if this was true or not ...

Prisons are jam packed with innocent people - what about Jeremys rights ?

He might be guilty but if you seriously think he got a fair trial then you are extremely naive indeed ...

[Adam]

I am sure that Robert Boutflour, David Boutflour, Anthony Pargeter and Julie Mugford all told significant lies to the Police and/or Jury during this case ...

Do you see why i am a bit suspicious of them and why i wonder what the exact nature of their involvement was ?

Even if Julie story was true she lied to everyone involved for weeks to protect a child killer before then telling the truth - alternatively her whole story is a pack of lies engineered by one or more of the relatives ...

What lies did Julie tell ?

She went to the police after one month. After telling 5 people what she knew. She had finally managed to break away from Bamber whisking her around England & Holland after he rang her at 5am on the massacre morning.

[notsure]

If the law decides it's in no one's best interests to prosecute someone, what right do you have to make it their fault. What do you imagine Julie was going to do -indeed, what might YOU have done at 20 years old and faced with seeing your future in tatters? Would you have laid down on the floor and begged them to prosecute you? As for Anthony? You seem to be the only one who's shouting his guilt. You seem to be determined to ruin the life of two people who, thus far, have nothing against them, save your accusations. You may "bet you life" but it seems to me that it's nothing more than prurient interest on your part.

Well technically maxine carr didn't do anything g wrong g either but she got sent down.

[susan]

The relatives were already rich. So didn't need to save themselves financially.

So it was RB, not AP.

I doubt that RB was clever enough to technically tell the truth but still mislead the jury. If he did attempt this, it is up to the defence lawyer to pressurise RB.

Adam I thought the relatives were short of cash one of the better posters on here will confirm or dismiss this statement I have made please don't ask for a source I do n't have one

[notsure]

Adam I thought the relatives were short of cash one of the better posters on here will confirm or dismiss this statement I have made please don't ask for a source I do n't have one

I don't think they were rich susan. Adams definition of rich may be different to ours though

[susan]

What lies did Julie tell ?

She went to the police after one month. After telling 5 people what she knew. She had finally managed to break away from Bamber whisking her around England & Holland after he rang her at 5am on the massacre morning.

Adam I  cannot understand why she did not warn the family of his evil intentions she  could have saved their lives failing that why wait a month to go to the police and tell all even about the hit man

[sherlock]

The relatives were already rich. So didn't need to save themselves financially.

So it was RB, not AP.

I doubt that RB was clever enough to technically tell the truth but still mislead the jury. If he did attempt this, it is up to the defence lawyer to pressurise RB.

They were far from rich ...

Anne was forced to "mortgage" her land to uncle Neville

Obviously her father Robert Boutflour didn't have the money to bail her out ...

Jeremy's 95 year old grandmother was the one with all the money ...

Robert persuaded her to sign it all over to his family whilst on her death bed only after the murders ...

I do not know anything yet about Anthony's finances except he lived in a shared cottage with his sister - there is nothing to indicate he had money ...

Why do you think the relatives were rich when they clearly were not ?

It might have been RB AND AP - who knows ?

You obviously have no understanding at all of Robert Boutflour if you think he was not capable of misleading the Jury whilst technically telling "the truth" ...

Not only was he very obviously perfectly capable but he very clearly did it ...

[lookout]

Oh,okay.I just wondered.

One thing that JB did was write to EP naming several people who he thought should have been investigated.EP acknowledged his letter,but didn't hear anything more,other than they were likely to pursue the matter.

As you said,Sherlock,there's more to this case than meets the eye.I wish we had the names of those who Jeremy named because for sure it now stinks if those people were never followed up . I wonder who they were connected with,JB or Sheila ??

[sherlock]

Well technically maxine carr didn't do anything g wrong g either but she got sent down.

There is zero difference between Maxine Carr and Julie Mugford - they both committed a terrible terrible thing - unless of course Julie made it all up - which in itself would be evil ...

[Adam]

Adam I thought the relatives were short of cash one of the better posters on here will confirm or dismiss this statement I have made please don't ask for a source I do n't have one

https://youtu.be/BLedeOGdj2U

One minute 17.