Author Topic: Should child criminals be granted anonymity?  (Read 99661 times)

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guest7363

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Re: Should child criminals be granted anonymity?
« Reply #225 on: August 17, 2020, 06:03:PM »
The public have a right to know who they're living next door to or who prospective neighbours will be, so yes, these monsters should be named.
100 per cent agree Lookout, there are ways of finding this out Lookout through the Police if you’re concerned, the danger is, if you tell anyone else about your neighbours past (if they have one) especially after being informed,  you then would more than likely be charged with an offence yourself.  I’m talking more about Sex offenders here though Lookout, I would imagine it might be the same in most cases?

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Should child criminals be granted anonymity?
« Reply #226 on: August 17, 2020, 06:34:PM »
100 per cent agree Lookout, there are ways of finding this out Lookout through the Police if you’re concerned, the danger is, if you tell anyone else about your neighbours past (if they have one) especially after being informed,  you then would more than likely be charged with an offence yourself.  I’m talking more about Sex offenders here though Lookout, I would imagine it might be the same in most cases?
There was a sexual element to the Edlington Two, who retained anonymity for some reason. I'm still not sure why some judges allow the names out and others err on the side of caution. I suppose if you're going back to a huge housing estate in Wythenshawe (or in their case Sheffield) there's always the risk of vigilantism.

guest7363

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Re: Should child criminals be granted anonymity?
« Reply #227 on: August 17, 2020, 06:47:PM »
There was a sexual element to the Edlington Two, who retained anonymity for some reason. I'm still not sure why some judges allow the names out and others err on the side of caution. I suppose if you're going back to a huge housing estate in Wythenshawe (or in their case Sheffield) there's always the risk of vigilantism.
Its sometimes and most likely to protect victims Steve, especially in sexual assault cases

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Should child criminals be granted anonymity?
« Reply #228 on: August 17, 2020, 06:49:PM »
Its sometimes and most likely to protect victims Steve, especially in sexual assault cases
Yes that's a good point Real justice. Quite often we focus too much on rehabilitation of the offender and forget the victims of their most heinous crimes.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Should child criminals be granted anonymity?
« Reply #229 on: February 04, 2021, 05:01:PM »

Offline lookout

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Re: Should child criminals be granted anonymity?
« Reply #230 on: February 06, 2021, 07:25:PM »
A shocking case. I imagine it'll only be a matter of time before the names are mentioned.
I couldn't help noticing the female Judge's name--- Mrs Justice Tipples and the poor woman who'd been murdered was an alcoholic.
Mr Justice Globe had a connection with one of JB's appeals I think, along with two other judges.

Offline nugnug

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Re: Should child criminals be granted anonymity?
« Reply #231 on: February 06, 2021, 08:07:PM »
i think everybody should anomity theres no reason to name somone untill there convicted.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Should child criminals be granted anonymity?
« Reply #232 on: February 06, 2021, 08:23:PM »
i think everybody should anomity theres no reason to name somone untill there convicted.
My understanding is that they were granted anonymity as teenagers but had to apply for lifelong anonymity when they turned 18. This wasn't just a spur of the moment crime with mitigating circumstances but a prolonged 7-hour torture. They were sentenced to a minimum of 15 years in 2016 and by the looks of things at least one of them currently is in no fit state to be released. https://www.hartlepoolmail.co.uk/news/crime/angela-wrightson-killer-attacked-detention-centre-staff-and-inmates-during-bad-behaviour-custody-3126124


Offline nugnug

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Re: Should child criminals be granted anonymity?
« Reply #234 on: November 01, 2021, 09:55:PM »
the one problem with anonimty and juvenile courts as you dont hear the procedings you have no idea weather the verdict was correct or not


like i asume that lad on the isle of bute was gulity but i cant say for certan becouse i dident get any of the evdence until afterthe conviction.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2021, 09:57:PM by nugnug »

Offline lookout

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Re: Should child criminals be granted anonymity?
« Reply #235 on: November 02, 2021, 11:12:AM »
Have we become inured to violence of this kind? https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/boy-16-sentenced-for-shooting-15-year-old-in-face-at-close-range-as-he-walked-to-school/ar-AAQc48W?ocid=msedgntp





Another entitled brat ! Does anyone think he'll be any different at 45 years of age----if he lives ? I hope he meets his match !!

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Should child criminals be granted anonymity?
« Reply #236 on: November 02, 2021, 06:29:PM »




Another entitled brat ! Does anyone think he'll be any different at 45 years of age----if he lives ? I hope he meets his match !!
Why on earth are young teenage boys walking the streets with guns and knives? We have never had this on such a scale before. It's time to reclaim the streets for the elderly, for women, for the ordinary, honest law-abiding citizen going about their business.

guest29835

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Re: Should child criminals be granted anonymity?
« Reply #237 on: November 03, 2021, 07:40:PM »
Should child offenders be granted anonymity?

No, because justice must always be done out in the open and public reporting of offending serves as additional chastisement.  The exceptions are cases such as the Bulger killing, where it was clearly a mistake to allow the press and media to name them.  That decision has made a long-running circus out of a tragic case and done no good.

Should child offenders, or any offender, continue to suffer detriment after due punishment is served?

Not in most cases, because to do so is contrary to natural justice, and it is in the wider interests of the community to allow rehabilitation.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Should child criminals be granted anonymity?
« Reply #238 on: November 03, 2021, 09:36:PM »
Should child offenders be granted anonymity?

No, because justice must always be done out in the open and public reporting of offending serves as additional chastisement.  The exceptions are cases such as the Bulger killing, where it was clearly a mistake to allow the press and media to name them.  That decision has made a long-running circus out of a tragic case and done no good.

Should child offenders, or any offender, continue to suffer detriment after due punishment is served?

Not in most cases, because to do so is contrary to natural justice, and it is in the wider interests of the community to allow rehabilitation.
Your post doesn't make a lot of sense, firstly because the age of criminal responsibility is 10, so why make an exception in the Bulger case and not for other same-age perpetrators? Your last point doesn't really make sense either, because child criminals once released will be given a new identity away from their home area and if they have truly atoned for their crime and keep their head down they should not suffer detriment as you put it.

guest29835

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Re: Should child criminals be granted anonymity?
« Reply #239 on: November 03, 2021, 10:20:PM »
Your post doesn't make a lot of sense, firstly because the age of criminal responsibility is 10, so why make an exception in the Bulger case and not for other same-age perpetrators? Your last point doesn't really make sense either, because child criminals once released will be given a new identity away from their home area and if they have truly atoned for their crime and keep their head down they should not suffer detriment as you put it.

I find you quite grating.  When you say I am not making sense, you are not being constructive, you are being insultative in that you are implying that I am not thinking coherently.  I think you do understand what I am saying and you are doing this on purpose to annoy me.  But let's assume you don't understand.   I'm not sure what you expect me to do about your inability to understand, but perhaps if I try and spell it out for you, that might help you?

So let me try:

The exception should have been made in the Bulger case for very obvious reasons.  It is a particularly notorious case and very many people become emotionally distressed, irrational and angry at things that don't directly concern them (as it happens, you are an example of this phenomenon, albeit in a different sort of way).  This was demonstrated very well in the reception for the two culprits outside their first criminal court appearance, with grown men running at the custody van and attempting to intimidate them, all of it captured on film.  Even today, people are still irrational about the case.

Looking at the situation overall, allowing the media and press to disclose their names and identities was not a sound decision.  It created all sorts of undesirable unintended consequences.  But that was an exceptional case and good law is not made on the basis of bad or exceptional cases.  As a general rule, I do think disclosure should be made as a matter of course - even when the culprit is 10 years old - but as I have just explained, there are situations when, exceptionally, disclosure should be barred.  When there are exceptional circumstances, it should be a decision for the judge to make.

Your second point overlooks that I am not just referring to notorious child criminals, whose identities may or may not be withheld, but to child offenders generally and also adult offenders as well, whose identities may have been made public.  People should be punished for offending, but the punishment at some point has to stop.  Information should still be retained and discoverable in newspaper archives and what not, but it should not be freely available to anybody who casually searches for a name or enquiries of a public body or even a private business, as that results in unfairness towards people who may be making efforts at rehabilitation.

Furthermore, your assumption that simply changing somebody's name and identity will be enough would only hold up if the offender is granted the dispensation of a new birth certificate, which would have to be exceptionally rare.  Without that redux step, any past identity remains potentially disclosable to employers and other bodies who ask for such information, as well as enterprising individuals who develop suspicions and know how to conduct searches of the relevant public records.

I hope the above explains things.  I would appreciate it if you could stop wasting my time.  My posts are not directed at you and if they are not to your liking, you can ignore them, or you can ask me to clarify things.  Thank you.