Re - Professor Herbert Leon MacDonell:

[Jane]

I don't believe they will ever change stance Adam; privately or otherwise. Nor am I concerned either way. It's up to others what beliefs they wish to hold. All we can do is give people the choice. Bamber isn't going anywhere.

Regarding my stance change in the SH case. SH confessed to the murder. His confession came as a shock but also explained his sudden and drastic change of behaviour following the Zenith burglary omission. Which at the time I mistakenly put down to PTSD having recently learned he was moving to an open prison (He moved less than a month of the omission).

I had a choice when SH confessed. I could deny his confession or admit I had been conned.

Many others chose to publicly deny the confession and in so doing, imo, these people gave an insight into their personas and indeed wisdom/knowledge or lack of.

Steph, I don't think you did anything other that what any ONE of us would do if we were emotionally attached -for whatever reason- to another person. NO ONE wants to believe they've backed the wrong horse but it's a damn sight easier to lose money than to have our naively held beliefs shattered. We invest SO much in them that I believe MOST of us will cling to positive beliefs about those to whom we're emotionally attached, be it friend, lover, parent, spouse, hero, until we're forced to see them for what they really are.

[Adam]

Anyway, my PM offer is still open to Lookout and Mike.

Mike is now saying Bamber is innocent because the massacre may have been carried out by a team of hit men. So I suspect he will  pursue this avenue rather than PM me.

[Stephanie]

Steph, I don't think you did anything other that what any ONE of us would do if we were emotionally attached -for whatever reason- to another person. NO ONE wants to believe they've backed the wrong horse but it's a damn sight easier to lose money than to have our naively held beliefs shattered. We invest SO much in them that I believe MOST of us will cling to positive beliefs about those to whom we're emotionally attached, be it friend, lover, parent, spouse, hero, until we're forced to see them for what they really are.

Indeed Jane, though there are many people who choose to not see them for what they really are, even when forced to do so.

Only the other day someone told me they were still of the belief SH had been coerced by the police to confess? I'm unsure how they came to that conclusion? But it does make one wonder where these people get their ideas from?

[mike tesko]

The message logs you refer to have several plausible explanations.

A) Error in communication between officers and/or misunderstanding.

B) Sheila was seen alive. but mistaken for dead before she returns back upstairs.


Those that claim Sheila was murdered need to grapple with the testimony of Professor Knight and Vanezis below.



"Dr Vanezis gave evidence that the nature of the blood stains to the nightdress suggested that Sheila Caffell was sitting up when she received both injuries. After the second injury she would have immediately fallen back. There was no evidence of any other mark or injury to Sheila Caffell's body such as might be suffered during a fight or in a scuffle."


This demonstrates that Sheila was sitting upwards on the floor while BOTH shots were inflicted. Not only that but they are both in an upwards trajectory. On top of that you have the absence of any defence wounds on Sheila in contrast to that of June or Neville. This proves Sheila took her own life. If someone else was involved she would have to have been highly complicit thus any second party would simply be assisting in the suicide.

Neville Bamber = All shots in a downward trajectory plus additional trauma and/or defence wounds.

June Bamber = All shots in a downward trajectory plus additional trauma and/or defence wounds(marks to her neck)

Sheila Caffell = All shots are contact wounds in an UPWARDS trajectory and NO additional trauma and/or defence wounds.

With the post-mortem hypostasis and lack rigour already ruling Jeremy out that only leaves the police and the police certainly do not have the brains to engineer this scene, nobody does. Thus Sheila took her own life.

Sheila was stood upright and involved in a struggle over the possession of a rifle at the time of the first shot across the throat, blood from this first wound ran vertical down her neck. She was laid out flat on her back and unconscious at the time of the second shot, hence why blood ran diagonally across her neck from the second wound. The messages were not communication errors, it wasn't a raid carried out by the keystone cops, or was it? Police staged Sheila's death scene, they tampered with one of the two bullets which injured or killed her, they merged the evidence from two different silencers into the same one. If Venezis and Knight had been made aware of the possibility that Sheila was present in the kitchen prior to ending up in the bedroom, their findings would have been much different. Sheila was unconscious when cops placed the rifle from the first floor window on her body and it discharged the fatal shot - hence why her eyes remained closed at death...

[Stephanie]

Sheila was stood upright and involved in a struggle over the possession of a rifle at the time of the first shot across the throat, blood from this first wound ran vertical down her neck. She was laid out flat on her back and unconscious at the time of the second shot, hence why blood ran diagonally across her neck from the second wound. The messages were not communication errors, it wasn't a raid carried out by the keystone cops, or was it? Police staged Sheila's death scene, they tampered with one of the two bullets which injured or killed her, they merged the evidence from two different silencers into the same one. If Venezis and Knight had been made aware of the possibility that Sheila was present in the kitchen prior to ending up in the bedroom, their findings would have been much different. Sheila was unconscious when cops placed the rifle from the first floor window on her body and it discharged the fatal shot - hence why her eyes remained closed at death...

Some peoples eyes remain open when sleeping and indeed in death. Not sure this theory works Mike. I've witnessed someone sleeping with their eyes open..

[Jane]

Indeed Jane, though there are many people who choose to not see them for what they really are, even when forced to do so.

Only the other day someone told me they were still of the belief SH had been coerced by the police to confess? I'm unsure how they came to that conclusion? But it does make one wonder where these people get their ideas from?

SOME of it may be that conspiracies are often more exciting than the truth. Some of it may be that some people need a cause. Some of it may be that some people need something (other?) to focus their anger on. Some of it may be that some people want to kick against anything which has to do with, or is other than, their own beliefs about establishment/law enforcement/justice.

[Stephanie]

SOME of it may be that conspiracies are often more exciting than the truth. Some of it may be that some people need a cause. Some of it may be that some people need something (other?) to focus their anger on. Some of it may be that some people want to kick against anything which has to do with, or is other than, their own beliefs about establishment/law enforcement/justice.

I have other theories/beliefs...

[Stephanie]

Steph, I don't think you did anything other that what any ONE of us would do if we were emotionally attached -for whatever reason- to another person. NO ONE wants to believe they've backed the wrong horse but it's a damn sight easier to lose money than to have our naively held beliefs shattered. We invest SO much in them that I believe MOST of us will cling to positive beliefs about those to whom we're emotionally attached, be it friend, lover, parent, spouse, hero, until we're forced to see them for what they really are.

Indeed Jane, though there are many people who choose to not see them for what they really are, even when forced to do so.

Only the other day someone told me they were still of the belief SH had been coerced by the police to confess? I'm unsure how they came to that conclusion? But it does make one wonder where these people get their ideas from?

I will add that I held conflicting thoughts for some time after the confession. Sometimes referred to as cognitive dissonance.

[Jane]

I will add that I held conflicting thoughts for some time after the confession. Sometimes referred to as cognitive dissonance.

Yeah, and rather like the stages of grief, our conflicting emotions don't conveniently go from beginning through to end of. They can come back to bite when we least expect them.

[lookout]

Anyway, my PM offer is still open to Lookout and Mike.

Mike is now saying Bamber is innocent because the massacre may have been carried out by a team of hit men. So I suspect he will  pursue this avenue rather than PM me.

You know what you can do with your PM-----------------------

[David1819]

A lot of people changed stance after I joined.

Who? 

[lookout]

Who? 

He'll be bankrupt,hee hee hee hee.

[Adam]

Who? 

Caroline, Jane J, Graheme, Susan, Alias.

Caroline and Susan gave specific reasons. Caroline because Bamber didn't answer her question on the last harvest. Susan due to the posts of me and Harters.

Jane J refused to give a reason and Graheme said he 'has to give in to his betters'.

You are the only one who has changed stance from guilty to innocent after you're 'forensic evidence breakthrough' thread. 

[lookout]

Caroline, Jane J, Graheme, Susan, Alias.

Caroline and Susan gave specific reasons. Caroline because Bamber didn't answer her question on the last harvest. Susan due to the posts of me and Harters.

Jane J refused to give a reason and Graheme said he 'has to give in to his betters'.

You are the only one who has changed stance from guilty to innocent after you're 'forensic evidence breakthrough' thread.

When was it that you twisted Graham's arm ?

[David1819]

When was it that you twisted Graham's arm ?

I think he left because he got fed up.