The window catch issue

[notsure]

Lets not forget Nugs 's thread. Bamber could have climbed through the upstairs main bedroom window. Where Nevile and June were.

Yes but that's not what the prosecution said he did is it. Silly bum

[Roch]

What are the sources for the claim that all windows were secure when checked by police? Is it one or more statements or is it mentioned in some other form or both? 

[lookout]

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1168.0;attach=6005;image

Fall down across the locking bar as in locked closed secured.  That's how I would read it?

SOCO could find nothing wrong with the windows when they examined them the first week of September.It was only in October when JB had entered that way to get his passport and papers that a mark or marks had appeared. This he'd admitted to at trial.


Because the window had been locked/secured from the inside.

[guest7363]

SOCO could find nothing wrong with the windows when they examined them the first week of September.It was only in October when JB had entered that way to get his passport and papers that a mark or marks had appeared. This he'd admitted to at trial.


Because the window had been locked/secured from the inside.

Well Barlow noticed and reported it on Aug22nd. 

[guest2181]

they might well be able to be banged shut but it said that after trying it out it could not be done so with the handles ending up inthe 6 ko'clock position. Now if they were in the 6 o'clock position it proves he couldn't have used that window.

The ct cannot be pinning there hopes on this alone if it this was just one of the windows he could have used. There's got to be more to it than that. I think it must have been made clear that this was the window he used to enter.exit otherwise what would be the point.

We can argue about it all we like but I am convinced they wouldn't waste money and time on an issue that isn't going to get them anywhere.

This is taken from the 2002 Appeal Judgement. It seems to show that the CT are indeed wasting their time.

286. The prosecution had established conclusively and without challenge the appellant's ability to enter and leave the White House Farm when it was apparently secure from his own answers. Julie Mugford confirmed the fact. The Crown did not have the burden of proving by which window and by which mechanism the entry was made. The Crown proved capacity both to enter and leave. There was no issue. As the trial Judge said (at page 10E):

"… how he got there and out again whether by the kitchen window or any other means, though of interest, cannot affect the outcome of the case"

[guest2181]

What are the sources for the claim that all windows were secure when checked by police? Is it one or more statements or is it mentioned in some other form or both?

Have a look at the 2002 Appeal Judgement.

http://www.homepage-link.to/JUSTICE/judgements/Bamber/index.html

As a quick way of scanning through it, run a search for "window", there are 89 results, then just click through them.

[Jane]

Closed------but not secured. There's a difference. According to DCI Jones all areas within,including windows, were locked and secured

You haven't yet clarified how recent was "recently" painted.

[guest2181]

You haven't yet clarified how recent was "recently" painted.

They were painted in June/July 1985.

[Jane]

They were painted in June/July 1985.

Thanks H. I guess that means that by August they'd have been well past the sticking stage.

[guest7363]

Thanks H. I guess that means that by August they'd have been well past the sticking stage.

Agree Jane, also bedded in due to hot weather, opening and closing the window. Handles don't get painted heavy, no one likes sticking or stuck handles.

[Roch]

Have a look at the 2002 Appeal Judgement.

http://www.homepage-link.to/JUSTICE/judgements/Bamber/index.html

As a quick way of scanning through it, run a search for "window", there are 89 results, then just click through them.

Thanks Hartley.

[Roch]

This is taken from the 2002 Appeal Judgement. It seems to show that the CT are indeed wasting their time.

Quote

286. The prosecution had established conclusively and without challenge the appellant's ability to enter and leave the White House Farm when it was apparently secure from his own answers. Julie Mugford confirmed the fact. The Crown did not have the burden of proving by which window and by which mechanism the entry was made. The Crown proved capacity both to enter and leave. There was no issue. As the trial Judge said (at page 10E):

"… how he got there and out again whether by the kitchen window or any other means, though of interest, cannot affect the outcome of the case"

That seems quite a 'stitch-up' or 'high threshold' depending on your point of view.  Ordinarily, I think people would be inclined to ask - if the perpetrator could not make exits secure from the outside - then who made the exits secure from the inside after he left?

[guest2181]

Quote
That seems quite a 'stitch-up' or 'high threshold' depending on your point of view.  Ordinarily, I think people would be inclined to ask - if the perpetrator could not make exits secure from the outside - then who made the exits secure from the inside after he left?

Well yes, of course you are going to say that, given your point of view, however:

The prosecution had established conclusively and without challenge the appellant's ability to enter and leave the White House Farm when it was apparently secure.

I don't think JB did himself any favours by admitting that he could get in and out of the house with ease ("Insecure windows, secure windows, it makes no difference") ; or indeed entering through a window after being released on bail.

It's generally thought that the entrance following bail was so that he could attribute any signs of access to that occasion rather than the 6/7th August.

[lookout]

Well Barlow noticed and reported it on Aug22nd.

Bit late in the day to report anything 3 weeks later. DCI Jones reported straight away that the place was secure.

[lookout]

You haven't yet clarified how recent was "recently" painted.

>>>>>>went out shopping, ( for Christmas cards before the rush )but just noted that Hartley's already answered.