When the enquiry changed from a suicide to murder did the relatives have alibis?

[John]

I accept that grahame but that doesn't mean he didn't do it.  Whether he is a nice chappie now is totally irrelevant to his conviction.

No I wasn't commenting on his conviction John. I was just saying that everyone is still judging his character on how he was in 1985 and before. Come to think of it we all tend to think the same about the rest of the family. The only ones who haven't changed are those who are dead, poor souls. But we all change and if Jeremy was innocent (as I personally believe he is) then he has probably grown up a great deal. It is his character that people seem to judge and because his character was bad they seem to think he must have done it. His character is brought up regularly here. But whatever he was like back then it has no bearing on what he is now.
I find this a worrying thing about the police as well. That they assume, once a crook always a crook and every time theres a crime in that area they go round that persons house to question them.
People change, you've changed I've changed. Why do we still assume JB hasn't changed? Excepting his conviction of course.

I agree with that grahame but it is the conviction in 1985 we are concerned with here...at least i think that is the whole point of this forum...I may be wrong??

It could be a matter of giving a dog a bad name...one has to rise above this but sometimes it is very difficult.

I have no doubt that Jeremy has changed, he is now for better or for worse institutionalised.  You have to have spent time in prison to understand how it fucks up your mind.

[John]

Yes, as occurred in the Jenkins case where he was indeed convicted, cleared, retried twice resulting in two hung juries and then acquitted...I don't know why this is so difficult for people to understand. It isn't rocket science.

I don't know either. I only mentioned that it was a possibility, a system is in place to allow it. A hung jury would not have proven JB's innocence, he would not have "walked free" without having to go through at least one retrial.

It doesn't matter anyway, he was actually convicted.

Even if he is successful in an appeal it won't prove his innocence.

That is interesting because as it stands in Scotland, appeal judges will not quash a conviction on appeal unless they are convinced that the appellant is innocent.

This is the basis that the SCCRC make referrals on.

[John]

Yes, as occurred in the Jenkins case where he was indeed convicted, cleared, retried twice resulting in two hung juries and then acquitted...I don't know why this is so difficult for people to understand. It isn't rocket science.

And btw, a Barrister is not an expert...try QC.

How is a QC an expert , i could show you many barristers better advocates than some QC'S !!

true!   

...and I know a dozen of them that are plonkers!   

[jon]

Yes, as occurred in the Jenkins case where he was indeed convicted, cleared, retried twice resulting in two hung juries and then acquitted...I don't know why this is so difficult for people to understand. It isn't rocket science.

And btw, a Barrister is not an expert...try QC.

How is a QC an expert , i could show you many barristers better advocates than some QC'S !!

true!   

...and I know a dozen of them that are plonkers!   

I know more than a dozen !!

[John]

Yes, as occurred in the Jenkins case where he was indeed convicted, cleared, retried twice resulting in two hung juries and then acquitted...I don't know why this is so difficult for people to understand. It isn't rocket science.

And btw, a Barrister is not an expert...try QC.

How is a QC an expert , i could show you many barristers better advocates than some QC'S !!

true!   

...and I know a dozen of them that are plonkers!   

I know more than a dozen !!

Mine are all Scottish so by population density I win!!   

[Jackiepreece]

John any time any place a reasonable distance from where I live I will have this argument with you face to face and we can find out who you really are I will even have the whole thing filmed.

You are actually saying that Jeremy was going to be caught re the caravan park robbery so he murdered his whole family ha ha

More like the experienced theif Mugford said to Jeremy do you want something that will give you a real buzz let's rob the caravan park.  She probably said it's easy I have just nicked £4000 of stuff on a cheque fraud

How he must rue the day he set eyes on her

John remind me the facts again of the new porche JB was buying

John filmmakers documentary makers writers they all watch this forum and every website I am sure they will find a slot for you somewhere
Can't wait to put a face to the posts
You won't be able to dodge anything if your sat right in front of me

[John]

John any time any place a reasonable distance from where I live I will have this argument with you face to face and we can find out who you really are I will even have the whole thing filmed.

You are actually saying that Jeremy was going to be caught re the caravan park robbery so he murdered his whole family ha ha

More like the experienced theif Mugford said to Jeremy do you want something that will give you a real buzz let's rob the caravan park.  She probably said it's easy I have just nicked £4000 of stuff on a cheque fraud

How he must rue the day he set eyes on her

John remind me the facts again of the new porche JB was buying

John filmmakers documentary makers writers they all watch this forum and every website I am sure they will find a slot for you somewhere
Can't wait to put a face to the posts
You won't be able to dodge anything if your sat right in front of me

Hello Jackie...are you going to be civil now?   

I look forward to it, I have another investigation in which I am involved in nearby Capel St Mary so might just take you up on that.

What I am saying is that if Nev found out for sure that Jeremy was responsible for the break-in, the arson and the robbery at the caravan park, he would have been out in his ear....no inheritance then!

No matter how you paint it Jackie, Jeremy was the instigator, not poor Julie.

You know all about the Porsche that Jeremy talked to the cops about as his family were going into rigor mortis. How about the new restaurant too?

You're the dodge expert Jackie, you never did come back with Jeremy's instructions did you??   

[HMEssex]

I think everyone knows by now this Porsche was a replica kit car.

[Jackiepreece]

hmessex John knows the porche was a replica too that's why I pulled him


So johns involved in another investigation poor sod whoever that is getting stitched up

John I don't think you will gain any fans with the poor Julie comment (experienced
thief)

I take it from your post you are a copper then

[HMEssex]

hmessex John knows the porche was a replica too that's why I pulled him


So johns involved in another investigation poor sod whoever that is getting stitched up

John I don't think you will gain any fans with the poor Julie comment (experienced
thief)

I take it from your post you are a copper then

Hopefully not in the Essex Police, it won't do their reputation much good.  'Involved with' could mean many things though.

[John]

I think everyone knows by now this Porsche was a replica kit car.

Maybe to begin with but with what he was about to inherit he could have bought the entire franchise.   

[Alias]

I think everyone knows by now this Porsche was a replica kit car.

Maybe to begin with but with what he was about to inherit he could have bought the entire franchise.   

Oh, come oooon!

[John]

hmessex John knows the porche was a replica too that's why I pulled him


So johns involved in another investigation poor sod whoever that is getting stitched up

John I don't think you will gain any fans with the poor Julie comment (experienced
thief)

I take it from your post you are a copper then

The kit car was only a humble start, Jeremy had eyes on bigger fish cars.

The stitching up as you put it has already happened, I am trying to secure their release and exoneration.

I don't want any fans, is that what you seek Jackie?  self gratification?

[John]

I think everyone knows by now this Porsche was a replica kit car.

Maybe to begin with but with what he was about to inherit he could have bought the entire franchise.   

Oh, come oooon!

Is this not fact?  Do you have any idea how much both Nev and June were worth?

[HMEssex]

I think everyone knows by now this Porsche was a replica kit car.

Maybe to begin with but with what he was about to inherit he could have bought the entire franchise.   

Oh, come oooon!

Is this not fact?  Do you have any idea how much both Nev and June were worth?

No, but the relatives did...