When the enquiry changed from a suicide to murder did the relatives have alibis?

[smiffy]

your not thick are you john lamberton...you being an ex policeman..
you are a dishonest nasty liar though ...frame innocent people did you?
is it that people take no real interest in your own claimed miscarriage of justice claims and that it riles you so much you launch attacks on supporters of quite obvious miscarriages of justice.
I think it is.....and you have no real support john lamberton because people can see through your lies.

mugford is a nasty liar..full stop.. chip on her shoulder..and she made money from it...blood money...whatever way you want to look at it.

[Alias]

Rochford Sheilds talking about Hartley and John put yourself in your place you are the relatives then one month  after the murders you find out this mugford character had known before the murders after the murders (viewing the bodies) going on holiday with the murders. How would you feel about her because I would have been after her blood.

I am talking about thick people not realising how bad the behaviour is when they big up Mugford


I am convinced in my opinion they worked together to convict Jeremy for there own personal separate reasons


Any normal person would absolutely hate Julie mugford for her involvement in the murder

Why don't they?

Thanks.  I see what you mean.  It's as if Mugford has immunity from hatred by the relatives as well as immunity from prosecution by the authorities.  I can see that now.  Perhaps you are pointing out that the relatives don't even seem to care... that in a way... Julie also made serious money out of not speaking out in time to save the twins, June and Neville?

Good post.
I would like to add, volunteered to identify the bodies to "prevent Jeremy from giving himself away". Visited Colin Caffell, the grieving father.  Attended both funerals, comforting the murderer. Went on vacation with him. Slept with him. Accepted gifts from him. Her actions were outrageous, if you assume Jeremy did it - and she would have KNOWN by then. For more than a month. And she kept her mouth shut until he dumped her.
Isn´t she just a doll?! Everybody has to love her...

[Hartley]

Any normal person would absolutely hate Julie mugford for her involvement in the murder

Why don't they?

What makes you think that they don't? Enlighten me please.

Lets be clear about this, Muggy wasn't involved as Jackie likes to put it but by alleging such she has just admitted that Jeremy did murder his family.

Nice own goal Jacks!   

Yes I saw that.  There's a wood around here somewhere but I can't see it because of all these god damn trees!!!

[Hartley]

Rochford Sheilds talking about Hartley and John put yourself in your place you are the relatives then one month  after the murders you find out this mugford character had known before the murders after the murders (viewing the bodies) going on holiday with the murders. How would you feel about her because I would have been after her blood.

I am talking about thick people not realising how bad the behaviour is when they big up Mugford


I am convinced in my opinion they worked together to convict Jeremy for there own personal separate reasons


Any normal person would absolutely hate Julie mugford for her involvement in the murder

Why don't they?

Thanks.  I see what you mean.  It's as if Mugford has immunity from hatred by the relatives as well as immunity from prosecution by the authorities.  I can see that now.  Perhaps you are pointing out that the relatives don't even seem to care... that in a way... Julie also made serious money out of not speaking out in time to save the twins, June and Neville?

Good post.
I would like to add, volunteered to identify the bodies to "prevent Jeremy from giving himself away". Visited Colin Caffell, the grieving father.  Attended both funerals, comforting the murderer. Went on vacation with him. Slept with him. Accepted gifts from him. Her actions were outrageous, if you assume Jeremy did it - and she would have KNOWN by then. For more than a month. And she kept her mouth shut until he dumped her.
Isn´t she just a doll?! Everybody has to love her...

Yes I'd agree if that was true, but I'd like to know why people think the relatives like or are friendly towards Julie?

It's not the case at all.

[Jackiepreece]

Hartley you are backing yourself into a corner again and you will soon have to run away again with your tail between your legs like you did a few weeks ago.

I don't believe Julie mucked was telling the truth about knowing about the murders and that is why the relatives didn't push to have her charged not an own goal at all

If mugford was telling the truth the relatives would have gone to any lengths to have had her charged


John you are a liar

Answer my 2 questions

[Jackiepreece]

Hartley it will be interesting if an appeal is granted and the newly found information on the relatives financial situation is bought up if the defence could ask for copies of any phone calls between Canada and the relatives especially at certain times like the 2002 appeal

[Hartley]

Hartley you are backing yourself into a corner again and you will soon have to run away again with your tail between your legs like you did a few weeks ago.

Yes dear of course.

I'm very sorry and I'm sure you're a really nice person in the flesh, but you really do not come across as a particularly pleasant person on these forums, you seem to be full of angst and bitterness, appear to enjoy dishing out the insults and trying to bait people into personal feuds.

To add to all that I'm not sure that you actually come up with too much that is constructive, you don't discuss evidence posted by Mike or enter into discussions about possible theories, all you do is aim your venom towards the relatives, Julie and any poster who has a different opinion to your good self.

With all that in mind, and to avoid further confrontation of the nature you seem to so enjoy, may I suggest we add each other to our ignore lists in the profile setting and then carry on about our business, but separately?

As I said I'm sure you're a lovely person, but we just seem to clash.  Have a good one Jackie.

[John]

your not thick are you john lamberton...you being an ex policeman..
you are a dishonest nasty liar though ...frame innocent people did you?
is it that people take no real interest in your own claimed miscarriage of justice claims and that it riles you so much you launch attacks on supporters of quite obvious miscarriages of justice.
I think it is.....and you have no real support john lamberton because people can see through your lies.

mugford is a nasty liar..full stop.. chip on her shoulder..and she made money from it...blood money...whatever way you want to look at it.

What support have you low-life...even your own son was taken away from you, now that must say it all.,..we won't even mention the perversions! 

...and as for your scamming/spamming and pyramid selling to innocent people , now that is yet another low for such a worm!

[John]

Any normal person would absolutely hate Julie mugford for her involvement in the murder

Why don't they?

What makes you think that they don't? Enlighten me please.

Lets be clear about this, Muggy wasn't involved as Jackie likes to put it but by alleging such she has just admitted that Jeremy did murder his family.

Nice own goal Jacks!   

Yes I saw that.  There's a wood around here somewhere but I can't see it because of all these god damn trees!!!

I like it Hartley!!  +1

Have you ever noticed how the abuse comes out when they are on the defensive Hartley...sooooo amusing!   

[John]

Hartley you are backing yourself into a corner again and you will soon have to run away again with your tail between your legs like you did a few weeks ago.

I don't believe Julie mucked was telling the truth about knowing about the murders and that is why the relatives didn't push to have her charged not an own goal at all

If mugford was telling the truth the relatives would have gone to any lengths to have had her charged


John you are a liar

Answer my 2 questions

If anyone runs away it is you Jackie, you never did come back about those Jeremy instructions...could it be that you imagine all this since your infatuation is all consuming?

No I ain't the liar Jackie but you saying as much leads me to believe you just don't know as much as you think you do about this case.  Muggy did a brilliant job and I am quite sure she would be welcomed with open arms should she ever decide to visit the village pub!

[Roch]

Rochford Sheilds talking about Hartley and John put yourself in your place you are the relatives then one month  after the murders you find out this mugford character had known before the murders after the murders (viewing the bodies) going on holiday with the murders. How would you feel about her because I would have been after her blood.

I am talking about thick people not realising how bad the behaviour is when they big up Mugford


I am convinced in my opinion they worked together to convict Jeremy for there own personal separate reasons


Any normal person would absolutely hate Julie mugford for her involvement in the murder

Why don't they?

Thanks.  I see what you mean.  It's as if Mugford has immunity from hatred by the relatives as well as immunity from prosecution by the authorities.  I can see that now.  Perhaps you are pointing out that the relatives don't even seem to care... that in a way... Julie also made serious money out of not speaking out in time to save the twins, June and Neville?

Good post.
I would like to add, volunteered to identify the bodies to "prevent Jeremy from giving himself away". Visited Colin Caffell, the grieving father.  Attended both funerals, comforting the murderer. Went on vacation with him. Slept with him. Accepted gifts from him. Her actions were outrageous, if you assume Jeremy did it - and she would have KNOWN by then. For more than a month. And she kept her mouth shut until he dumped her.
Isn´t she just a doll?! Everybody has to love her...

Yes I'd agree if that was true, but I'd like to know why people think the relatives like or are friendly towards Julie?

It's not the case at all.

That's sort of the way I meant it.  You might expect some venom from relatives towards her.  Though it seems neutral instead.  If that does not signify anything suspicious, then maybe any anger they had towards her was kept private.  Maybe they offset other factors also, such as her vital testimony in sending him down.  Just speculation.

[Hartley]

I like it Hartley!!  +1

Have you ever noticed how the abuse comes out when they are on the defensive Hartley...sooooo amusing!   

Well I wouldn't mind if I deserve it, except I've been quite restrained and generally polite to all just lately. 

[John]

Yes, I think the locals owe her a round or two don't you Jackie?

[Hartley]

That's sort of the way I meant it.  You might expect some venom from relatives towards her.  Though it seems neutral instead.  If that does not signify anything suspicious, then maybe any anger they had towards her was kept private.  Maybe they offset other factors also, such as her vital testimony in sending him down.  Just speculation.

That's possible, they have pretty much kept themselves to themselves, so who knows what their thoughts are.
I don't think their views can be taken from the various witness statements, diaries etc, sure it gives an incite, but how often do you hear about someone and then meet them and they are completely different to how you thought they were.

All this defamation of character business doesn't do much for me, whether it's the relatives, JB, Julie or any of the witnesses. In lieu of good hard concrete evidence I can only go along with the interpretations of the cross examiners and the jury.

If new evidence emerges to the contrary then fine, but until that happens, slagging different people off and calling them liars without evidence or justification isn't going to persuade me otherwise.

[grahameb]

Yes, and if we could put differences of opinions aside for just a moment and stand in the neutral corner.

If they thought JB did it and it was looking like he was going to get away with it, then how else would you expect them to behave? Yes of course we can pick out inappropriate behaviour, from the relatives and from JB.
Perhaps they were desperate, but desperate to ensure JB didn't get away with it rather than desperate to have the inheritance themselves.

Perhaps the relatives did indeed plant evidence to frame JB; perhaps they framed JB, but in actual fact he was also guilty; or maybe they didn't frame him at all?

Either way as Grahame says, it doesn't make any difference to my life whatever happens, but we've all got an a*****e.

Yes I agree. We must stand neutral sometimes and even examine our own theries at times. Because we can become so involved with our own opinions that there is always the danger of not seeing the wood for the trees. So I find it useful sometimes to put myself in the shoes of those who have a different opinion than mine to try and see where they are coming from. Yes I agree also that the thoughts of the relatives was not primarily that of getting an inheritance. I should think the shock of such an event would have been overwhelming to any ordinary person, let alone those who were directly related to them?

I thought about that - it must have been a traumatic experience for the relatives as well; but we only hear about their sleuthing antics, stripping the house of valuables etc. And their behaviour WAS strange, it just was.  Jeremy's too.
The impression you have of the lot is that their family members are slaughtered and they immediately go into fighting-over-the-possessions-mode. Some of them must have grieved - surely?? Its just that we haven't really heard much about that.
Are there any indications that any of them were actually mourning apart from Jeremy obviously at the funerals?

Believe me abs, the farming community around these parts are strange. I deal with a lot of them. There was one bloke he wanted a bit "IF" Painted on his transporter unit. When I asked him what it stoof for he said "Well it made YOU ask didn't it?". I gathered it was his way of getting people to look. But some of them are very odd.