Author Topic: Found---handwritten suicide notes. Sheila's ?  (Read 74323 times)

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Offline Jane

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Re: Found---handwritten suicide notes. Sheila's ?
« Reply #630 on: September 18, 2016, 01:10:PM »
Thinking back on these letters of Sheila's,Jeremy could easily have said " yes,it's Sheila's writing ",but he didn't,instead,when shown them a couple or so years ago,he'd said not and more or less,unknowingly, dismissed the fact that they could have helped towards his release.
Simply because he didn't recognise that her writing would have altered along with her mental state,something that he didn't give a thought to,so he was being HONEST in his refusal to accept that the writing was that of Sheila's.
I sincerely hope that all goes well in securing him part of the freedom he so deserves. A few steps forward is better than none at all.

Yesterday at 3.02 you maintained that Sheila's brained "was not addled at all" in which case there's have been nothing but her own possible sense of the dramatic to alter her writing.

Perhaps you could clarify whether you believe that Sheila was in the midst of a psychotic episode, as you've previously maintained OR, as you now seem to think, because she had a mind of her own  and had stopped taking drugs she deemed to be no longer necessary, she was in full mental control.

Offline Caroline

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Re: Found---handwritten suicide notes. Sheila's ?
« Reply #631 on: September 18, 2016, 01:13:PM »
Thinking back on these letters of Sheila's,Jeremy could easily have said " yes,it's Sheila's writing ",but he didn't,instead,when shown them a couple or so years ago,he'd said not and more or less,unknowingly, dismissed the fact that they could have helped towards his release.
Simply because he didn't recognise that her writing would have altered along with her mental state,something that he didn't give a thought to,so he was being HONEST in his refusal to accept that the writing was that of Sheila's.
I sincerely hope that all goes well in securing him part of the freedom he so deserves. A few steps forward is better than none at all.

What would be the point of saying they were Sheila's handwriting? If he was lying he'd be found out when they were analysed.
Few people have the imagination for reality

Offline lookout

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Re: Found---handwritten suicide notes. Sheila's ?
« Reply #632 on: September 18, 2016, 01:37:PM »
Yesterday at 3.02 you maintained that Sheila's brained "was not addled at all" in which case there's have been nothing but her own possible sense of the dramatic to alter her writing.

Perhaps you could clarify whether you believe that Sheila was in the midst of a psychotic episode, as you've previously maintained OR, as you now seem to think, because she had a mind of her own  and had stopped taking drugs she deemed to be no longer necessary, she was in full mental control.




Anxiety,frustration and fear when writing can alter the way one writes,it doesn't necessarily have to be a psychotic episode or an addled brain.
If these letters had been written prior to the murders of that night then the urge to do so ( murder ) would be gee'd on in order to carry it through because of how they were worded.
We all know that the worse time for writing anything is when you're angry,as not only does your writing change,but the content too sometimes doesn't make sense but it doesn't mean to say that you have a health issue.
Sheila would also have been suffering the withdrawal symptoms from not taking her prescribed medication for a few days when having Haldol only, in her system. 

It was mentioned yesterday that her medication was being reduced anyway,so whoever had reviewed this step had obviously thought that her condition didn't warrant the high doses as was first prescribed.
I think it's still questionable as to whether her condition was as bad as has been made out.

No harm in me having my own views is there ? How sad that you have to track my posts, to time as well.
Was that a tit for tat move on your part because I found an old post of yours yesterday ?? Mmmm.

Offline lookout

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Re: Found---handwritten suicide notes. Sheila's ?
« Reply #633 on: September 18, 2016, 01:39:PM »
What would be the point of saying they were Sheila's handwriting? If he was lying he'd be found out when they were analysed.



Chances are,they wouldn't have been analysed.
Strange they weren't destroyed if it was thought the letters meant nothing !
« Last Edit: September 18, 2016, 01:43:PM by lookout »

Offline Jane

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Re: Found---handwritten suicide notes. Sheila's ?
« Reply #634 on: September 18, 2016, 01:55:PM »



Anxiety,frustration and fear when writing can alter the way one writes,it doesn't necessarily have to be a psychotic episode or an addled brain.
If these letters had been written prior to the murders of that night then the urge to do so ( murder ) would be gee'd on in order to carry it through because of how they were worded.
We all know that the worse time for writing anything is when you're angry,as not only does your writing change,but the content too sometimes doesn't make sense but it doesn't mean to say that you have a health issue.
Sheila would also have been suffering the withdrawal symptoms from not taking her prescribed medication for a few days when having Haldol only, in her system. 

It was mentioned yesterday that her medication was being reduced anyway,so whoever had reviewed this step had obviously thought that her condition didn't warrant the high doses as was first prescribed.
I think it's still questionable as to whether her condition was as bad as has been made out.

No harm in me having my own views is there ? How sad that you have to track my posts, to time as well.
Was that a tit for tat move on your part because I found an old post of yours yesterday ?? Mmmm.

NO! Purely because what you said today was SO contrary to what you'd so VERY recently, said.

The reduction of her meds has been done to death. It seems possible that the extremely high dose she was on might only be appropriate for those newly admitted to hospital. I very much doubt she'd have had withdrawal symptoms from not taking a drug only designed to counteract symptoms she was no longer experiencing.

Offline Jan

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Re: Found---handwritten suicide notes. Sheila's ?
« Reply #635 on: September 18, 2016, 03:24:PM »
Thinking back on these letters of Sheila's,Jeremy could easily have said " yes,it's Sheila's writing ",but he didn't,instead,when shown them a couple or so years ago,he'd said not and more or less,unknowingly, dismissed the fact that they could have helped towards his release.
Simply because he didn't recognise that her writing would have altered along with her mental state,something that he didn't give a thought to,so he was being HONEST in his refusal to accept that the writing was that of Sheila's.
I sincerely hope that all goes well in securing him part of the freedom he so deserves. A few steps forward is better than none at all.


I don't think it was just that . I don't think he was convinced of the source of the letters.

Offline Caroline

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Re: Found---handwritten suicide notes. Sheila's ?
« Reply #636 on: September 18, 2016, 03:28:PM »


Chances are,they wouldn't have been analysed.
Strange they weren't destroyed if it was thought the letters meant nothing !

And yet they were supposed to have destroyed evidence that did mean something?
Few people have the imagination for reality

Offline Jan

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Re: Found---handwritten suicide notes. Sheila's ?
« Reply #637 on: September 18, 2016, 03:33:PM »


Chances are,they wouldn't have been analysed.
Strange they weren't destroyed if it was thought the letters meant nothing !

As I said before I was told they were found during the COLP investigation , so I am not sure if the defence saw the notes , if they were in exsistance at the time of the crime.. Hence why they were not analysed.

Offline lookout

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Re: Found---handwritten suicide notes. Sheila's ?
« Reply #638 on: September 18, 2016, 03:41:PM »
NO! Purely because what you said today was SO contrary to what you'd so VERY recently, said.

The reduction of her meds has been done to death. It seems possible that the extremely high dose she was on might only be appropriate for those newly admitted to hospital. I very much doubt she'd have had withdrawal symptoms from not taking a drug only designed to counteract symptoms she was no longer experiencing.




There'd been other drugs in which she should have been taking,not only those that counteracted the side-effects. There's a list of them somewhere.
The contradictions have been created by those,particularly Ferguson who'd originally given her a HIGH dose intramuscularly of Haldol and in the same breath told one and all that she didn't prove to be a danger-------------then why the high dose injection if that wasn't the case ? Was it a " just in case ?" Or did any of them know what they were doing ? Which naturally gives the impression that how Sheila was being treated was  more an " experiment " than the full knowledge of what she was suffering from. I'm fully aware that medication for mental health issues is very hit and miss initially and what might appear as schizophrenia turns out to be severe depression brought on by the myriad of problems which frought Sheila's life.

Offline Jane

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Re: Found---handwritten suicide notes. Sheila's ?
« Reply #639 on: September 18, 2016, 04:07:PM »



There'd been other drugs in which she should have been taking,not only those that counteracted the side-effects. There's a list of them somewhere.
The contradictions have been created by those,particularly Ferguson who'd originally given her a HIGH dose intramuscularly of Haldol and in the same breath told one and all that she didn't prove to be a danger-------------then why the high dose injection if that wasn't the case ? Was it a " just in case ?" Or did any of them know what they were doing ? Which naturally gives the impression that how Sheila was being treated was  more an " experiment " than the full knowledge of what she was suffering from. I'm fully aware that medication for mental health issues is very hit and miss initially and what might appear as schizophrenia turns out to be severe depression brought on by the myriad of problems which frought Sheila's life.


The autopsy report give a comprehensive list of what was found in her system. There was nothing, other than a trace of marijuana, that hadn't been prescribed. It MAY be that it was the norm, back then, to prescribe high doses of certain drugs related to mental health -just in case??- since when such may have been deemed unnecessary.

Offline lookout

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Re: Found---handwritten suicide notes. Sheila's ?
« Reply #640 on: September 18, 2016, 04:31:PM »

The autopsy report give a comprehensive list of what was found in her system. There was nothing, other than a trace of marijuana, that hadn't been prescribed. It MAY be that it was the norm, back then, to prescribe high doses of certain drugs related to mental health -just in case??- since when such may have been deemed unnecessary.




Mental health back then was more or less covered up and like in the Bamber household,wasn't spoken about. It's only this century that it's been recognised and brought to the fore to make people aware that it does exist. Newer drugs and an attitude without stigma is being practised widely so that those who think they have a problem can freely speak about it to their GP who can then advise them.
There certainly isn't the " shame " as there used to be. After assessment each type of problem is treated with the appropriate drug suitable for that particular illness,instead of a one size fits all approach as it once was. 

Offline lookout

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Re: Found---handwritten suicide notes. Sheila's ?
« Reply #641 on: September 18, 2016, 04:45:PM »
Years ago the spoken word was " he/she's gone a bit funny ",which more or less covered everything.

Offline Jane

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Re: Found---handwritten suicide notes. Sheila's ?
« Reply #642 on: September 18, 2016, 04:48:PM »



Mental health back then was more or less covered up and like in the Bamber household,wasn't spoken about. It's only this century that it's been recognised and brought to the fore to make people aware that it does exist. Newer drugs and an attitude without stigma is being practised widely so that those who think they have a problem can freely speak about it to their GP who can then advise them.
There certainly isn't the " shame " as there used to be. After assessment each type of problem is treated with the appropriate drug suitable for that particular illness,instead of a one size fits all approach as it once was.

I can only say, from what's been said by experts and lay people alike, that I believe that Sheila was a PS. I've wrestled with her being bi-polar but it doesn't sit well with her imaginings of the religious kind which seemed to manifest themselves during her unmedicated states.

I still hold that she was depressed, despite what was said yesterday about her having a new job/home/money to look forward to. NONE of us can say -nor has the right- what causes depression in another person. Depression happens.

Offline Jan

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Re: Found---handwritten suicide notes. Sheila's ?
« Reply #643 on: September 18, 2016, 07:51:PM »
Years ago the spoken word was " he/she's gone a bit funny ",which more or less covered everything.

Mental health may be more spoken about these days , however the treatment is still lacking unfortunately .



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Re: Found---handwritten suicide notes. Sheila's ?
« Reply #644 on: September 18, 2016, 08:57:PM »
And yet they were supposed to have destroyed evidence that did mean something?

Maybe they didn't think a suicide note was damning?  ;D