Author Topic: Found---handwritten suicide notes. Sheila's ?  (Read 74213 times)

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Offline Romeo

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Re: Found---handwritten suicide notes. Sheila's ?
« Reply #480 on: September 15, 2016, 09:22:PM »

So now you be live Julie then? Because that's the only person who heard it in a particular context and not a through away remark.

The Court did!

Offline Caroline

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Re: Found---handwritten suicide notes. Sheila's ?
« Reply #481 on: September 15, 2016, 09:23:PM »
I suppose one takes internet links at face value.  http://what-when-how.com/forensic-sciences/postmortem-interval/

I see no evidence that June was in a heightend state of lividity - however, for the sake of argument, the first shot caused a 'substantial' haemorrhage when the bullett caught her jugular and the article you posted states;

Conversely, the development of lividity may be delayed in persons with chronic anemia or massive terminal hemorrhage.
Few people have the imagination for reality

Offline lookout

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Re: Found---handwritten suicide notes. Sheila's ?
« Reply #482 on: September 15, 2016, 09:23:PM »
Pity Sheila's and the children's drawings weren't under scrutiny as well as the handwriting.
Sheila's drawings as an 11 year old had spooked Colin when he first visited WHF,and we all know what 5/6 year old drawings were like. Odd being the operative word for them.

Offline Romeo

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Re: Found---handwritten suicide notes. Sheila's ?
« Reply #483 on: September 15, 2016, 09:25:PM »
I see no evidence that June was in a heightend state of lividity - however, for the sake of argument, the first shot caused a 'substantial' haemorrhage when the bullett caught her jugular and the article you posted states;

Conversely, the development of lividity may be delayed in persons with chronic anemia or massive terminal hemorrhage.

Well said Caroline.....wish we had a 'Like' button  :)

Offline lookout

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Re: Found---handwritten suicide notes. Sheila's ?
« Reply #484 on: September 15, 2016, 09:29:PM »
Are we now saying that June hadn't been dead for hours ?

Offline Caroline

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Re: Found---handwritten suicide notes. Sheila's ?
« Reply #485 on: September 15, 2016, 09:38:PM »
Are we now saying that June hadn't been dead for hours ?

They both had.
Few people have the imagination for reality

Offline lookout

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Re: Found---handwritten suicide notes. Sheila's ?
« Reply #486 on: September 15, 2016, 09:43:PM »
They both had.



No------they'd have been peuce all over. ( purple )

Offline Romeo

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Re: Found---handwritten suicide notes. Sheila's ?
« Reply #487 on: September 15, 2016, 09:45:PM »
How long do you think they had been dead then Lookout?

Offline lookout

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Re: Found---handwritten suicide notes. Sheila's ?
« Reply #488 on: September 15, 2016, 09:45:PM »
I don't remember one of the many officers mentioning a stench.Which there would have been after " hours ".

Offline Romeo

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Re: Found---handwritten suicide notes. Sheila's ?
« Reply #489 on: September 15, 2016, 09:47:PM »
I remember reading that they opened the windows......probably the smell.

Offline lookout

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Re: Found---handwritten suicide notes. Sheila's ?
« Reply #490 on: September 15, 2016, 09:52:PM »
How long do you think they had been dead then Lookout?



Sheila hadn't been dead much above a couple of hours.June only slightly longer,but no way for hours,that's ridiculous. I've seen bodies which have been dead for hours and believe me they DON'T look like Sheila and June.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2016, 09:52:PM by lookout »

Offline David1819

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Re: Found---handwritten suicide notes. Sheila's ?
« Reply #491 on: September 15, 2016, 09:52:PM »
Good post Steve! I've posted the same kind of thing,  but David won't see the obvious, that Sheila had been dead for hours. I like his table though  ;)

Not only do the reasons for a possible delay not apply to Sheila how about you actually read what is posted

Most authorities agree that lividity attains its maximum intensity, on average, at around 12 h postmortem, but there is some variation in descriptions of when it first appears, and when it is well developed, i.e. confluent. Hypostasis begins to form immediately after death, but it may not be visible for some time. Ordinarily its earliest appearance, as dull red patches, is 20-30 min after death, but this may be delayed for up to 2, or rarely 3 h. The patches of livor then deepen, increase in intensity, and become confluent within 14 h postmortem, to reach a maximum extent and intensity within about 6-10 h, but sometimes as early as 3 h or as late as 16 h. Faint lividity may appear shortly before death in individuals with terminal circulatory failure. Conversely, the development of lividity may be delayed in persons with chronic anemia or massive terminal hemorrhage.

Even if post mortem hypostasis was delayed in a "rare" situation of 3 hours. That gives another 3.5 hours for it to develop still. Not to mention that the causes for a delay do not apply to Sheila but they do in June and hers is clearly visible. What Steve has posted is actually shooting him in the foot.

Plus with the 7.5 hours benchmark I am being very generous to the prosecution here. This gives Jeremy very little time to finish engineering the scene then to peddle is arse pronto in the night back home over the fields then to clean himself up and do the final acting rehearsals. A more reasonable time frame would be 8.25 hours.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2016, 10:00:PM by David1819 »

Offline lookout

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Re: Found---handwritten suicide notes. Sheila's ?
« Reply #492 on: September 15, 2016, 09:56:PM »
I remember reading that they opened the windows......probably the smell.




None of the officers mentioned a smell which pertained to them having been dead for hours. The Aga had been going so it would have been stuffy.

Offline David1819

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Re: Found---handwritten suicide notes. Sheila's ?
« Reply #493 on: September 15, 2016, 09:59:PM »
I see no evidence that June was in a heightend state of lividity - however, for the sake of argument, the first shot caused a 'substantial' haemorrhage when the bullett caught her jugular and the article you posted states;

Conversely, the development of lividity may be delayed in persons with chronic anemia or massive terminal hemorrhage.

substantial and massive have two separate meanings. June received more blood loss form haemorrhage having been shot 6 times. yet it still never prevented it from forming.

substantial: adjective "of considerable importance, size, or worth"

massive: adjective  "exceptionally large"

Offline Jan

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Re: Found---handwritten suicide notes. Sheila's ?
« Reply #494 on: September 15, 2016, 10:01:PM »
yes a couple of photos will get jb released :)) :)) :))

Anything that proved time of death would.