Found---handwritten suicide notes. Sheila's ?

[Steve_uk]

Freddi emani and in Colin's book he talked about physical arguments between them stating he was surprised they had not killed each other. There were reports from the doctors as well that mentioned possible violence against the children , but not confirmed .

I don't recall this quote, nor the ones from the doctors.

[Caroline]

Freddi emani and in Colin's book he talked about physical arguments between them stating he was surprised they had not killed each other. There were reports from the doctors as well that mentioned possible violence against the children , but not confirmed .

I have only ever seen that mentioned on here.

[Adam]

Bamber told a policeman on the night that Sheila had committed child abuse on the twins. Bamber had not reported it.

He has not said this since.

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,7004.msg328743.html#msg328743

[Jane]

Freddi emani and in Colin's book he talked about physical arguments between them stating he was surprised they had not killed each other. There were reports from the doctors as well that mentioned possible violence against the children , but not confirmed .

Oh c'mon Jan!!! Someone says they were surprised they had not killed each other!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We ALL have used expansive descriptions of situations -some nationalities/people are renown for passionate speech-  but we only speak from our own experience of what we feel the situation MAY be -"I couldn't breathe" "I thought I was going to die" "It was HUGE" "It took HOURS".

If Colin was frustrated enough by Sheila's behaviours, it's more than possible, that on those occasions, when they they resorted to physical arguments, he wanted/ thought he wanted, to kill her, ergo, he would have believed she would have wanted to do the same to him.

Interesting that doctors speak only of POSSIBLE violence. I'd say they were covering themselves.

[lookout]

Signs of the times,I'd have said. " POSSIBLE " in 1985 would be replaced by a more positive description in 2016,meaning that violence would have been applied to men back then. Even murder by women was virtually unheard of. I'm not sure,after 1985,when it was that a woman/women had committed infanticide/familicide,but it gradually became a more publicised horror and was on the increase.
 

[Jane]

Signs of the times,I'd have said. " POSSIBLE " in 1985 would be replaced by a more positive description in 2016,meaning that violence would have been applied to men back then. Even murder by women was virtually unheard of. I'm not sure,after 1985,when it was that a woman/women had committed infanticide/familicide,but it gradually became a more publicised horror and was on the increase.

I expect you would, Lookout. I remain convinced, however, that "possible" covers all eventualities.

[lookout]

I expect you would, Lookout. I remain convinced, however, that "possible" covers all eventualities.

" Possible " is a negative word to me,like " thought " ",might ", " could ",etc etc.

[Jan]

Its in the book - I am not going to read it all again . like everything else it has been discussed on here before .

The fact is there were recorded incidences of violence with Sheila .

So I was just letting the OP know that the post was not quite correct.

[lookout]

Digressing slightly,there's a " Tonight " programme this evening at 7.30,ITV called " Careless Killings ",which focusses on those suffering from mental illness who end up in serious crimes.
Worth watching,I imagine,if it also explains what the trigger is.

[Jan]

“During the call the phone went dead. Sheila suddenly became hysterical, mumbling about the phone being bugged. She became like someone possessed ranting and raving. She was striking herself and beating the wall with her fists. I tried to calm her but she did not seem to hear me. I became extremely frightened not only for her but for myself. She kept talking about the Devil and God, and stated that God was sitting opposite her and unlike what her step mother said he in fact loved her. I contacted her ex-mother in law and asked her to come round. This aggravated the situation and Sheila became even more violent and abusive. Her mother in law called and found a prescription for Sheila’s drugs and asked me to get them for her. I went to the chemist and when I retuned I was met at the front door by the mother in law who was leaving. She told me Sheila had kicked her out. I went in and tried to pacify Sheila but was unable to do so. I became extremely concerned for my own safety. I telephoned Sheila’s Doctor and a short while later one of her partners arrived. Sheila refused to let him examine her shouting that he was trying to poison her. By this time she had become completely irrational. The doctor eventually left without being able to do anything. Being unable to do anything I contacted another doctor who arrived shortly afterwards. Again he was unable to do anything because Sheila would not allow him near her.

He wrote a short note which he handed to me and asked me to hand to Sheila’s GP and gave her a stronger drug, whilst the first doctor was there Tara’s husband called to collect his daughter who was staying with Sheila. I had arranged for this as I felt something nasty might happen. I was extremely scared for everyone’s safety. At that time I felt that Sheila may use violence towards someone."

Freddie goes on to say that after Sheila came out of hospital, he discussed that episode with her and she could not remember anything about it and that she believed he had made it up. He also recalled that during the psychotic episode he witnessed, Sheila could not recognise anyone who came to the flat and “believed everyone was trying to hurt or kill her.”

[Jan]

Notice she did not recognise anyone. So the logic that she would not attack her family  could be misplaced .

[Romeo]

I've also read this, do you not think Sheila's doctor's would have sectioned her that night if they felt she was a danger to her children and other people? I know Sheila was sent to hospital the next day, but if anyone was in immediate danger she would have been taken in hospital that night.

Much later her doctor...Doctor Ferguson reflected.....
'It never crossed my mind that she would act out any aggression towards her children. It was all to do with mental aberration rather than physical manifestations of anger or acting out that anger'.

Doctor Ferguson also states... The correlation between schizophrenia and violence is small but significant. Around 2 per cent of the population without mental health problems will commit a serious violent act.; for schizophrenia sufferers that figure stands at 8 per cent, a lower number than for those with depression or a personality disorder.

[Jan]

I've also read this, do you not think Sheila's doctor's would have sectioned her that night if they felt she was a danger to her children and other people? I know Sheila was sent to hospital the next day, but if anyone was in immediate danger she would have been taken in hospital that night.

Much later her doctor...Doctor Ferguson reflected.....
'It never crossed my mind that she would act out any aggression towards her children. It was all to do with mental aberration rather than physical manifestations of anger or acting out that anger'.

Doctor Ferguson also states... The correlation between schizophrenia and violence is small but significant. Around 2 per cent of the population without mental health problems will commit a serious violent act.; for schizophrenia sufferers that figure stands at 8 per cent, a lower number than for those with depression or a personality disorder.

unfortunately you could say that about a lot of children that have unfortunately been released back to parents who have then suffered at the hands of their parents . The system was not perfect then and is not perfect now.

[lookout]

No doctor/psychiatrist can ever say for certain that a psychotic attack won't end in disaster.
A lot would depend on the situation they were in at the time.Obviously if the patient felt aggravated,or if there were a few people around trying to help, sadly instead of helping it makes the patient worse ( I know this from experience ) then they will attack.
If Neville had been there with her,one to one,it would have helped calm her.
There's no knowing what a person will do during a psychotic attack.Nobody yet has got around to reading their minds. 

[Jan]

I've also read this, do you not think Sheila's doctor's would have sectioned her that night if they felt she was a danger to her children and other people? I know Sheila was sent to hospital the next day, but if anyone was in immediate danger she would have been taken in hospital that night.

Much later her doctor...Doctor Ferguson reflected.....
'It never crossed my mind that she would act out any aggression towards her children. It was all to do with mental aberration rather than physical manifestations of anger or acting out that anger'.

Doctor Ferguson also states... The correlation between schizophrenia and violence is small but significant. Around 2 per cent of the population without mental health problems will commit a serious violent act.; for schizophrenia sufferers that figure stands at 8 per cent, a lower number than for those with depression or a personality disorder.
[/

I guess you are also aware that there was talk that she might have be to be admitted to hospital in July 1985?

So the concerns were obviously ongoing.