Author Topic: Aftermath, Where is the forensic evidence that Jeremy Bamber killed his family?  (Read 32048 times)

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Offline David1819

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Closing argument used by Vincent Bugliosi in the double murder trial of Alan Palliko and Sandra Stockton in 1967. There wasn't a single piece of forensic evidence in that case - not even a dodgy silencer! This is the man who prosecuted Charles Manson also - he's no fool.

“I think that counsels’ problem is that they misconceive what circumstantial evidence is all about. Circumstantial evidence is not, as they claim, like a chain. You could have a chain spanning the Atlantic Ocean from Nova Scotia to Bordeaux, France, consisting of millions of links, and with one weak link that chain is broken.

“Circumstantial evidence to the contrary, is like a rope. And each fact is a strand of that rope. And as the prosecution piles one fact upon another we add strands and we add strength to that rope. If one strand breaks – and I’m not conceding for one moment that any strand has broken in this case – but if one strand does break, the rope is not broken. The strength of the rope is barely diminished. Why? Because there are so many other strands of almost steel-like strength that the rope is still more than strong enough to bind these two defendants to justice. That’s what circumstantial evidence is all about.”

Yes I have read this before, its well known. This does not apply to Jeremy's situation at all. There is no rope at all, Just a spiders web of lies. That is why you never bothered to post "the massive list" because its too embarrassing and you know it wont stand up to scrutiny.  ;D

Not only that but the times of death between June and Sheila cuts any circumstantial rope totally in half, no matter how thick it is.

« Last Edit: August 13, 2016, 03:18:AM by David1819 »

Offline Steve_uk

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Yes I have read this before, its well known. This does not apply to Jeremy's situation at all. There is no rope at all, Just a spiders web of lies. That is why you never bothered to post "the massive list" because its too embarrassing and you know it wont stand up to scrutiny.  ;D
There's a huge list why Jeremy is guilty. He was frustrated with a life where the standard of living he required was always out of reach, where he was expected to graft on the Farm when as he perceived it Sheila was living it up in Moreshead Mansions with nothing to do all day save lie in bed. He caught wind of the seriousness of her illness probably from Barbara Wilson, who may have told him his sister's thoughts that "all people are bad and should be killed." Rather than expressing sympathy as most family members would have done he conceived a plan, dictated at various stages those preceding six months to Julie. 

 In a sense we know the outline of that plan, which according to Jeremy post-event was the "perfect crime". This tells us that things did run smoothly, the first time he was truly in control after an early years experiencing nothing but alienation on the Farm, eight years at Gresham's as an automaton, further ordering around at Sloppy Joe's and Little Chef, the foreign trips where his parents ultimately controlled the purse strings and back to farming, to which he was tied by the terms of his father's will until he died.

It's important to understand that he had followed orders all his life and was never in a position to give them. It's why I exonerate Julie to some extent because taking orders was anathema and he vowed things would be different with his parents out of the way. Sheila would be set up as patsy, but she and the twins were a mere appendage: the main goal was the liquidation of his parents as retribution for the way he perceived he had been treated all those years: abandoned at birth, neglected at home due to June's illness and her inability to empathize, packed off to Gresham's for eight years, where every school holiday the estrangement became ever more severe, until finally he admitted to Julie "they have forfeited the right to live the way they have treated me."

As his confabulation became ever more vehement and Sheila's illness became all the more severe his resolution became stronger, strangling rats with his bare hands as the family folie a trois spread, the murder plans now seemingly a part of his daily routine as he sat inside the cannabis haze of the tractor and pondered his future. With the lightning strike on the Farm and Nevill's non-functioning mobile telephone coinciding with Sheila's visit it really was "now or never" as he told Julie, the chemical excitants exercising far more wayward control of his brain than his parents ever did in life.

And there we have it. No telephone call from Nevill because Jeremy was the ineffectual nonentity who went through the motions, who wouldn't use the crop sprayer, who wouldn't wear a shirt and tie at his father's request and who was only in the rank he occupied due to an accident of birth. Nevill couldn't conceal his disappointment at how his son had turned out and Jeremy felt it, though by now the time for self-recrimination had long since passed. No use of a gun by his gullible schizophrenic sister, a recovering anorexic suffering from Tardive Dyskinesia, whose coordination issues precluded her from driving, from pouring a drink without using two hands to steady the glass and who was thoroughly dependent on her rich parents the same way Jeremy was, though a gulf in colloquy existed between the two. It's why Jeremy can't bear the sight or sound of religion as he looks back in retrospect at the perceived damage it inflicted on mother and sister, why there is no sentiment of Christian repentance and why he hangs onto some feeling of superiority as in his own mind he emerged unscathed from that folie a trois and reverts to obeying orders from his prison cell where a sense of normalcy once again pervades.

« Last Edit: August 13, 2016, 04:21:AM by Steve_uk »

Offline David1819

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There's a huge list why Jeremy is guilty. He was frustrated with a life where the standard of living he required was always out of reach, where he was expected to graft on the Farm when as he perceived it Sheila was living it up in Moreshead Mansions with nothing to do all day save lie in bed. He caught wind of the seriousness of her illness probably from Barbara Wilson, who may have told him his sister's thoughts that "all people are bad and should be killed." Rather than expressing sympathy as most family members would have done he conceived a plan, dictated at various stages those preceding six months to Julie. 

 In a sense we know the outline of that plan, which according to Jeremy post-event was the "perfect crime". This tells us that things did run smoothly, the first time he was truly in control after an early years experiencing nothing but alienation on the Farm, eight years at Gresham's as an automaton, further ordering around at Sloppy Joe's and Little Chef, the foreign trips where his parents ultimately controlled the purse strings and back to farming, to which he was tied by the terms of his father's will until he died.

It's important to understand that he had followed orders all his life and was never in a position to give them. It's why I exonerate Julie to some extent because taking orders was anathema and he vowed things would be different with his parents out of the way. Sheila would be set up as patsy, but she and the twins were a mere appendage: the main goal was the liquidation of his parents as retribution for the way he perceived he had been treated all those years: abandoned at birth, neglected at home due to June's illness and her inability to empathize, packed off to Gresham's for eight years, where every school holiday the estrangement became ever more severe, until finally he admitted to Julie "they have forfeited the right to live the way they have treated me."

As his confabulation became ever more vehement and Sheila's illness became all the more severe his resolution became stronger, strangling rats with his bare hands as the family folie a trois spread, the murder plans now seemingly a part of his daily routine as he sat inside the cannabis haze of the tractor and pondered his future. With the lightning strike on the Farm and Nevill's non-functioning mobile telephone coinciding with Sheila's visit it really was "now or never" as he told Julie, the chemical excitants exercising far more wayward control of his brain than his parents ever did in life.

And there we have it. No telephone call from Nevill because Jeremy was the ineffectual nonentity who went through the motions, who wouldn't use the crop sprayer, who wouldn't wear a shirt and tie at his father's request and who was only in the rank he occupied due to an accident of birth. Nevill couldn't conceal his disappointment at how his son had turned out and Jeremy felt it, though by now the time for self-recrimination had long since passed. No use of a gun by his gullible schizophrenic sister, a recovering anorexic suffering from Tardive Dyskinesia, whose coordination issues precluded her from driving, from pouring a drink without using two hands to steady the glass and who was thoroughly dependent on her rich parents the same way Jeremy was, though a gulf in colloquy existed between the two. It's why Jeremy can't bear the sight or sound of religion as he looks back in retrospect at the perceived damage it inflicted on mother and sister, why there is no sentiment of Christian repentance and why he hangs onto some feeling of superiority as in his own mind he emerged unscathed from that folie a trois and reverts to obeying orders from his prison cell where a sense of normalcy once again pervades.

There is a significant reason why he is not guilty.

There is no fully developed post-mortem hypostasis (Lividity) in Sheila's body. Lividity starts to become visible in 2 hours and completes in around 6 hours. These photos were taken when Jeremy was in police custody for over 7 hours. For Jeremy to be guilty, post-mortem hypostasis (Lividity) has to be fully apparent in Sheila as it is June. The fact Lividity is only just barely starting in Sheila shows she died around two hours after these photos were taken. Roughly the exact same time the police broke the door down. Sheila killed herself as the police began breaking down the kitchen door. This made her realise she had no other option but to take her own life.

It does not matter what happened at Jeremy's school, What he allegedly thought of his parents, What mood he was in one particular day at Little Chef, where he went on holiday's or how he liked his eggs on toast. Its IMPOSSIBLE for him to have killed Sheila 
« Last Edit: August 13, 2016, 05:20:AM by David1819 »

Offline Adam

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"Tardive dyslexia is a difficult-to-treat and often incurable form of dyskinesia, a disorder resulting in involuntary, repetitive body movements. In this form of dyskinesia, the involuntary movements are tardive, meaning they have a slow or belated onset.

In some cases, an individual's legs can be so affected that walking becomes difficult or impossible."


This seems to match AE saying Sheila could not put sugar into coffee. And Sheila's best friend saying Sheils found it difficult getting off sofas.

Steve do you have a source that Sheila sufferred from Tardrive dyslexia ?

I already have a source that she was a recovering anorexic.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2016, 08:45:AM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline maggie

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Pink ? I think not. Those in the throes of death are white,some having a mask-like or waxy appearance.
The blood drains from their face because of lack of circulation and as the breathing gets more shallow there's less and less oxygen so cells start to die off. Their pallor is evident beyond about an hour and a half to two hours.
Cell breakdown is immediate after death.
Sheila was shot twice, her body would have been extremely traumatised by the first shot. In such a situation the body shuts down all non essential organs as blood drains from such areas and is redirected to protect the organs essential for life such as heart, liver, kidneys. I would think she would already have had extreme pallor because of such trauma before the second shot.  I also think this is a reason why Sheila would be unable to function to any degree after the first shot, not because of pain  because it's unlikely she would have felt it initially but because of the lack of blood i.e.. oxygen to her brain would have caused her to faint if she had attempted to raise her head or stand.

Offline maggie

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"Tardive dyslexia is a difficult-to-treat and often incurable form of dyskinesia, a disorder resulting in involuntary, repetitive body movements. In this form of dyskinesia, the involuntary movements are tardive, meaning they have a slow or belated onset.

In some cases, an individual's legs can be so affected that walking becomes difficult or impossible."


This seems to match AE saying Sheila could not put sugar into coffee. And Sheila's best friend saying Sheils found it difficult getting off sofas.

Steve do you have a source that Sheila sufferred from Tardrive dyslexia ?

I already have a source that she was a recovering anorexic.
Sorry but I am not convinced that Sheila suffered from Tardive Dyskensia but rather she suffered from tremor. Dyskensia particularly affects the face causing facial involuntary movements which are repetitive and akin to gurning.  Much comment has been made about Sheila's facial beauty and never a mention of such facial movements.  Antipsychotic drugs can cause tremor and its possible Stelazine was the culprit and why it was discontinued and Haloperidol was prescribed in its place. We don't know whether a change of drug stopped the tremors because we only have Ann Eaton's 'beans on toast' statement that she had such problems.
We do know Sheila wore makeup and apparently smoked roll ups so she must have had a fair degree of control in her hands. :-\

Offline Caroline

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Yes I have read this before, its well known. This does not apply to Jeremy's situation at all. There is no rope at all, Just a spiders web of lies. That is why you never bothered to post "the massive list" because its too embarrassing and you know it wont stand up to scrutiny.  ;D

Not only that but the times of death between June and Sheila cuts any circumstantial rope totally in half, no matter how thick it is.

 
Times of death? Don't make me laugh! Are you suggesting that David had succeeded where all other have failed and have worked out the time of death by some grainy old picture posted on the internet? OMG! You really have lost the plot!  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

I didn't post the list because you refused to make the same for Sheila.

The rope stands firm!
Few people have the imagination for reality

Offline lookout

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You can bet your life that appx times of death are listed somewhere. It would be unthinkable not to when such a huge case emerged.
It's been a sticking point with me from day one as it's the first thing which is recorded/reported in any death and if I'd been the relatives I'd have kicked off about it. This is why I say that the time of death is written down somewhere.
As I've said before,one of the first questions we were asked on the ward,by relatives was what time of death,particularly if the deceased had been seen to have been " well " the day before.

Offline Caroline

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You can bet your life that appx times of death are listed somewhere. It would be unthinkable not to when such a huge case emerged.
It's been a sticking point with me from day one as it's the first thing which is recorded/reported in any death and if I'd been the relatives I'd have kicked off about it. This is why I say that the time of death is written down somewhere.
As I've said before,one of the first questions we were asked on the ward,by relatives was what time of death,particularly if the deceased had been seen to have been " well " the day before.

They may well be Lookout, but David hasn't discovered anything.  ;D ;D ;D

This reminded me of David ..... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6zWjUhfj-M  ;D ;D ;D
« Last Edit: August 13, 2016, 02:01:PM by Caroline »
Few people have the imagination for reality

Offline lookout

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I used to love Monty Python. That and Black Adder.

Offline David1819

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I didn't post the list because you refused to make the same for Sheila.

No Caroline, you didn't post "The Massive List" because it does not exist and you know it. You simply  mentioned its existence, but it was nothing but a hollow confidence trick.


Offline Jane

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No Caroline, you didn't post "The Massive List" because it does not exist and you know it. You simply  mentioned its existence, but it was nothing but a hollow confidence trick.


I do wish you'd massage your ego in private. We don't all wish to be participants.

Offline Caroline

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No Caroline, you didn't post "The Massive List" because it does not exist and you know it. You simply  mentioned its existence, but it was nothing but a hollow confidence trick.

No David, I didn't post it because you refused to even attempt to do the same in respect to Sheila. I still have the list!

Like I said, as a detective you would make a smashing traffic warden!  ;) ;D ;D ;D ;D

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Offline Steve_uk

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"Tardive dyslexia is a difficult-to-treat and often incurable form of dyskinesia, a disorder resulting in involuntary, repetitive body movements. In this form of dyskinesia, the involuntary movements are tardive, meaning they have a slow or belated onset.

In some cases, an individual's legs can be so affected that walking becomes difficult or impossible."


This seems to match AE saying Sheila could not put sugar into coffee. And Sheila's best friend saying Sheils found it difficult getting off sofas.

Steve do you have a source that Sheila sufferred from Tardrive dyslexia ?

I already have a source that she was a recovering anorexic.
Well Colin mentions it in his book and he was the person who knew her best, though admittedly not a doctor himself. I don't have the books in front of me but it tallies with an incident in CAL's book where Sheila was walking across the farmyard and just waded into the geese as if they weren't there.

Offline Steve_uk

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Sorry but I am not convinced that Sheila suffered from Tardive Dyskensia but rather she suffered from tremor. Dyskensia particularly affects the face causing facial involuntary movements which are repetitive and akin to gurning.  Much comment has been made about Sheila's facial beauty and never a mention of such facial movements.  Antipsychotic drugs can cause tremor and its possible Stelazine was the culprit and why it was discontinued and Haloperidol was prescribed in its place. We don't know whether a change of drug stopped the tremors because we only have Ann Eaton's 'beans on toast' statement that she had such problems.
We do know Sheila wore makeup and apparently smoked roll ups so she must have had a fair degree of control in her hands. :-\
Yes I think that's right Maggie. However we don't know how long it took her to make her toilet.