Aftermath, Where is the forensic evidence that Jeremy Bamber killed his family?

[lookout]

How does the blood get to the lower levels Lookout?

It literally settles/stagnates and is drawn to those areas which are in contact with the floor/ground ( back,bottom and backs of legs ) if they're lying in their back because there's no circulation to give colour to the upper part of the body,thus leaving the face pale. Settling to the lowest point which creates the LM.

[Caroline]

With regard to #151 I have read that lividity starts on the face, neck arms and shoulders first. Isn't that lividity above and below the eyes which I first thought was make-up or light bruising?

Yes it is Steve, the blood settles at the lowest part of the body, but it has to get there first. The mottling is the blood moving to the lowest level and it discoloured because the blood isn't oxygenated.

[lookout]

With regard to #151 I have read that lividity starts on the face, neck arms and shoulders first. Isn't that lividity above and below the eyes which I first thought was make-up or light bruising?

The face remains pale Steve.

[lookout]

When a patient dies on a ward,the body is collected roughly an hour maybe longer,in order for relatives to say their goodbyes. There is never LM.

[Caroline]

The face remains pale Steve.

So it magically turns pale dose it? The blood has to drain to the lower part of the body, it doesn't just drop!

[David1819]

So it magically turns pale dose it? The blood has to drain to the lower part of the body, it doesn't just drop!

Yes and the process completes in around 6 hours

The photos show an obvious state of lividity in June but its only just beginning in Sheila. Meaning she could only have died around two hours after the photos were taken. Had she died 7 hours ago the Lividity will be apparent and fixed like that of June. But its not.

[Caroline]

Yes and the process completes in around 6 hours

The photos show an obvious state of lividity in June but its only just beginning in Sheila. Meaning she could only have died around two hours after the photos were taken. Had she died 7 hours ago the Lividity will be apparent and fixed like that of June. But its not.

No they don't!   

[lookout]

So it magically turns pale dose it? The blood has to drain to the lower part of the body, it doesn't just drop!

I should know with having worked at the hospital. No magic about it,it's the process of death.
Sad to say but I've lost count how many I've seen.

[Caroline]

I should know with having worked at the hospital. No magic about it,it's the process of death.
Sad to say but I've lost count how many I've seen.

So someone's face is pink and in the last breath it turns white?

[lookout]

So someone's face is pink and in the last breath it turns white?

Pink ? I think not. Those in the throes of death are white,some having a mask-like or waxy appearance.
The blood drains from their face because of lack of circulation and as the breathing gets more shallow there's less and less oxygen so cells start to die off. Their pallor is evident beyond about an hour and a half to two hours.
Cell breakdown is immediate after death.

[Caroline]

Pink ? I think not. Those in the throes of death are white,some having a mask-like or waxy appearance.
The blood drains from their face because of lack of circulation and as the breathing gets more shallow there's less and less oxygen so cells start to die off. Their pallor is evident beyond about an hour and a half to two hours.
Cell breakdown is immediate after death.

If someone has been shot and were fit and healthy before death, their face would be pink upon death. Therefore the blood has to 'drain' from their face, it's not immediate.

[David1819]

No they don't!   

So your saying June died when Jeremy was outside with the police also? The mystery thickens   

[Caroline]

So your saying June died when Jeremy was outside with the police also? The mystery thickens   

No, I'm saying those pictures you posted don't prove your point.

[Romeo]

David, Livor Mortis is usually at it's maximum in 6.12 hours. Sheila without a doubt has livor mortis on her left shoulder....as shown in the photos of her on this site. Having been moved from on her front shortly after death livor mortis would have been distributed to other parts of her body ie. her back which we cannot see, also the underneath of her legs where livor mortis settled.

Regarding Rigor Mortis, It's perfectly natural that Sheila's whole body wasn't set by the time the Police moved her arm.
Rigor Stage.... normally lasts 8.12. hours after which time the body is completely stiff.

[Caroline]

Closing argument used by Vincent Bugliosi in the double murder trial of Alan Palliko and Sandra Stockton in 1967. There wasn't a single piece of forensic evidence in that case - not even a dodgy silencer! This is the man who prosecuted Charles Manson also - he's no fool.

“I think that counsels’ problem is that they misconceive what circumstantial evidence is all about. Circumstantial evidence is not, as they claim, like a chain. You could have a chain spanning the Atlantic Ocean from Nova Scotia to Bordeaux, France, consisting of millions of links, and with one weak link that chain is broken.

“Circumstantial evidence to the contrary, is like a rope. And each fact is a strand of that rope. And as the prosecution piles one fact upon another we add strands and we add strength to that rope. If one strand breaks – and I’m not conceding for one moment that any strand has broken in this case – but if one strand does break, the rope is not broken. The strength of the rope is barely diminished. Why? Because there are so many other strands of almost steel-like strength that the rope is still more than strong enough to bind these two defendants to justice. That’s what circumstantial evidence is all about.”