Aftermath, Where is the forensic evidence that Jeremy Bamber killed his family?

[Adam]

i agree with that lebaleb, i think there is a lot to back up why shiela would have or could have had a psychotic episode.

The trouble is, you can't explain how she could have committed the massacre.

[Caroline]

Lividity will only effect the face if one is face down.


She looks rather pale here two. Very much alive also 

Did you bother to read the article I posted? As the blood settles to the lower part of the body, the skin becomes 'mottled' and that's what is evident on Sheila's face. You can see it, I'm not making it up! The blood on her face is dried and cracked not flowing as some would try to suggest!

[lookout]

It's a grainy picture. A thin line of blood will eventually crack-------that's nothing new as it has the same effect on a live person too. It's not her neck though,is it ?
The thicker volumes of blood from her neck would have flowed soon after death until settling to its own level to form LM in the lowest area once the heart had stopped beating.

[Caroline]

It's a grainy picture. A thin line of blood will eventually crack-------that's nothing new as it has the same effect on a live person too.

You can keep denying it if you like, the evidence is there. It looks grainy because I have enlarged it, it's certainly less grainy than the one posted of June, who's legs were covered in blood anyway.

[lookout]

You can keep denying it if you like, the evidence is there. It looks grainy because I have enlarged it, it's certainly less grainy than the one posted of June, who's legs were covered in blood anyway.

Even June's legs didn't show signs of LM,even allowing for the amount of blood.

[zoe]

Again the side of her face could be light blood smudges, the photos like the others have been tampered with to distort your perceptions. its interesting that normal photos with nothing of interest are of such high quality, you see to me, the dead people ive had the pleasure to see and be around have a very different colour in general than to the colour of Sheila in these pictures.

[Caroline]

Again the side of her face could be light blood smudges, the photos like the others have been tampered with to distort your perceptions. its interesting that normal photos with nothing of interest are of such high quality, you see to me, the dead people ive had the pleasure to see and be around have a very different colour in general than to the colour of Sheila in these pictures.

How has this picture been tampered with?

[David1819]

Did you bother to read the article I posted? As the blood settles to the lower part of the body, the skin becomes 'mottled' and that's what is evident on Sheila's face. You can see it, I'm not making it up! The blood on her face is dried and cracked not flowing as some would try to suggest!

Blood dries over time. How quickly this happens depends on the surface on which the blood landed, how much blood the spatter contains, and the heat and humidity at the crime scene, but as a rule the outer edges of the stain dry first. Consequently, after the interior portion flakes off or is smeared by an object, a dry blood spatter can skeletonize, that is, leave behind a ring similar in appearance (if not color) to a water ring on a coffee table [source: James et al.]. Patterns of drying help analysts determine how long an assault went on, detect whether it took place all at once or in stages, and nail down possible crime scene contamination [source: Wonder]. Clotting patterns in blood provide similar information and can help nail down the time factor if analysts arrive at the scene before blood can dry. Clotting begins within 3 to 15 minutes, but actual times vary by amount, surface type and environment. Mixed levels of clotting can indicate that multiple blows or gunshots occurred over time [sources: Dutelle, bloodstain pattern evidence. Anita Y. Wonder].


WHAT WOULD BE A REASONABLE
DRYING TIME FOR FLOWS?
Because the drying time of the flows may have
been viewed as important, an exhibit was
made to illustrate timing for flows to leave
faint traces after being wiped. A reasonable
facsimile was approximated for the humidity
and temperature of the stream area where the
vehicle travel terminated. The stream area
was cooler and probably a little more humid
than the test area for the flows. The conclusion
would therefore be that drying would
be within that time or longer. Exact times
for the experiment are purposely not given.
When a court exhibit is necessary to demonstrate
drying times, the experimentation
should be conducted using the parameters of
the specific case. In this situation the result of
TIMING IS EVERYTHING 59
the exercise was that five minutes was insufficient for the degree of drying noted
in the photographs of the victim's face. The exhibit confirmed that the blood
flows occurred, were wiped, and dried over a time period in excess of that available
between the alleged traffic accident and the arrival of the volunteer fireman.
No transfer material to wipe the flows was found in the car.
Conditions of the reconstruction were that fresh human blood, hematocrit
47 percent, was drawn by syringe venipuncture without anticoagulant. Runs
were immediately applied to the reverse side of pigskin suede, which is a
reasonable facsimile to human skin, tilted at 35 degrees, at a temperature of 68° E
At one, two, three, four, and five minutes,
respectively, a latex gloved finger was passed
over the stain. At remaining times a facial
tissue was rubbed through the stain. For
light touching, five minutes was sufficient
drying time but for wiping of the stains,
up to 20 minutes was required under the
conditions of this experiment. After six
and a half minutes the whole sheet was
tilted at 90 ° to see if the flows could change
directions that late


The thin stream of blood running down Sheila's mouth has coagulated while the thicker stream on her neck is not fully coagulated. You can tell by appearance, The outer edges of the blood are more coagulated than the centre.

A study published in the International Journal of Legal Medicine reported that a blood drop on a hard surface in a typical indoor setting at 20 degrees Celsius is completely dry in 60 minutes. Increasing the temperature to 24 degrees Celsius reduces the drying time to only 30 minutes


One thin stream of dry blood is perfectly consistent with absence of lividity showing Sheila died just over two hours before these photos were taken.

Sheila was responsible. No matter how many poppies Jeremy was picking outside

[Caroline]

Blood dries over time. How quickly this happens depends on the surface on which the blood landed, how much blood the spatter contains, and the heat and humidity at the crime scene, but as a rule the outer edges of the stain dry first. Consequently, after the interior portion flakes off or is smeared by an object, a dry blood spatter can skeletonize, that is, leave behind a ring similar in appearance (if not color) to a water ring on a coffee table [source: James et al.]. Patterns of drying help analysts determine how long an assault went on, detect whether it took place all at once or in stages, and nail down possible crime scene contamination [source: Wonder]. Clotting patterns in blood provide similar information and can help nail down the time factor if analysts arrive at the scene before blood can dry. Clotting begins within 3 to 15 minutes, but actual times vary by amount, surface type and environment. Mixed levels of clotting can indicate that multiple blows or gunshots occurred over time [sources: Dutelle, bloodstain pattern evidence. Anita Y. Wonder].


WHAT WOULD BE A REASONABLE
DRYING TIME FOR FLOWS?
Because the drying time of the flows may have
been viewed as important, an exhibit was
made to illustrate timing for flows to leave
faint traces after being wiped. A reasonable
facsimile was approximated for the humidity
and temperature of the stream area where the
vehicle travel terminated. The stream area
was cooler and probably a little more humid
than the test area for the flows. The conclusion
would therefore be that drying would
be within that time or longer. Exact times
for the experiment are purposely not given.
When a court exhibit is necessary to demonstrate
drying times, the experimentation
should be conducted using the parameters of
the specific case. In this situation the result of
TIMING IS EVERYTHING 59
the exercise was that five minutes was insufficient for the degree of drying noted
in the photographs of the victim's face. The exhibit confirmed that the blood
flows occurred, were wiped, and dried over a time period in excess of that available
between the alleged traffic accident and the arrival of the volunteer fireman.
No transfer material to wipe the flows was found in the car.
Conditions of the reconstruction were that fresh human blood, hematocrit
47 percent, was drawn by syringe venipuncture without anticoagulant. Runs
were immediately applied to the reverse side of pigskin suede, which is a
reasonable facsimile to human skin, tilted at 35 degrees, at a temperature of 68° E
At one, two, three, four, and five minutes,
respectively, a latex gloved finger was passed
over the stain. At remaining times a facial
tissue was rubbed through the stain. For
light touching, five minutes was sufficient
drying time but for wiping of the stains,
up to 20 minutes was required under the
conditions of this experiment. After six
and a half minutes the whole sheet was
tilted at 90 ° to see if the flows could change
directions that late


The thin stream of blood running down Sheila's mouth has coagulated while the thicker stream on her neck is not fully coagulated. You can tell by appearance, The outer edges of the blood are more coagulated than the centre.

A study published in the International Journal of Legal Medicine reported that a blood drop on a hard surface in a typical indoor setting at 20 degrees Celsius is completely dry in 60 minutes. Increasing the temperature to 24 degrees Celsius reduces the drying time to only 30 minutes


One thin stream of dry blood is perfectly consistent with absence of lividity showing Sheila died just over two hours before these photos were taken.

Sheila was responsible. No matter how many poppies Jeremy was picking outside

Toss!

[sami]

only in your mind david .

[lookout]

How can LM be in her face when liquid finds the lowest level which was her back if she was found face up ?  LM on the side of the face would have indicated that she had been lying in that position from death,which she wasn't.
LM is when the blood drains to the lowest point ( back ),thus drawing it from her face to leave it a pale colour which remains like that.
A two hour process.
If Dr Craig had depressed a thumb/finger in her arm he'd have also had an idea of time of death.

[David1819]

Toss!

Of course it is Caroline   

Lets ignore forensic science and embrace your brilliant intuition

[Caroline]

How can LM be in her face when liquid finds the lowest level which was her back if she was found face up ?  LM on the side of the face would have indicated that she had been lying in that position from death,which she wasn't.
LM is when the blood drains to the lowest point ( back ),thus drawing it from her face to leave it a pale colour which remains like that.
A two hour process.
If Dr Craig had depressed a thumb/finger in her arm he'd have also had an idea of time of death.

How does the blood get to the lower levels Lookout?

[Caroline]

Of course it is Caroline   

Lets ignore forensic science and embrace your brilliant intuition

Forensic science? Like Sheila extracting 'purge' a few hours after death? get back to your bedroom lab David and play nice! 

You should get yourself on of these!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/161993750477?lpid=122&chn=ps&googleloc=9046707&poi=&campaignid=628893806&device=c&adgroupid=28312585266&rlsatarget=pla-184497820626&adtype=pla&crdt=0

[Steve_uk]

With regard to #151 I have read that lividity starts on the face, neck arms and shoulders first. Isn't that lividity above and below the eyes which I first thought was make-up or light bruising?