Why Bamber pulled Sheila's feet forward two feet after the fatal shot:

[Jan]

The thread is about Bamber pulling Sheila's legs.

A new source was found today from John Hayward. Which supports David, Buddy and the 2002 appeal assertion that Sheila was sitting up when shot. 

Me and the 2002 appeal believing Sheila's legs were pulled by Bamber. Buddy saying the police pulled Sheila's legs before photos were taken.

You have said it is my leg being pulled.

Do you think there would have been blood on the cabinet behind her head if that was the case? Even if it was a few splattered spots ?

[Romeo]

There was blood found on the Lamp behind Sheila..... DB couldn't believe the lamp was still on the bed side table after the murders when his sister moved in.

[mike tesko]

There is no evidence that Bamber staged his sister's body on the bedroom floor. On the contrary, based upon what must have happened involving the contents of the police radio message logs, and police witness statements, the only people who could have adjusted Sheila's body on the floor of the bedroom by dragging her body by both feet is the police themselves. Jeremy was never present inside the farmhouse after cops confirmed two bodies found upon entry into the kitchen at 7.37 and 7.38am. Certainly, by 8.10am, Sheila's body could not possibly have been anywhere upstairs at all, otherwise a total of four bodies found upstairs would have been reported at 'that' time...

Do not ignore the contents of the police radio message logs which were messages passed spontaneously in real time. The police themselves have not offered an official explanation yet (and we are thirty years down the road) for this discrepancy in the body count downstairs and upstairs by the state of play at 8.10am.  Bamber himself did not pass those messages and record them, the police did. More significantly, those who saw the figure at the bedroom window with Jeremy at about 4am,  (occupants of CA07) were directly involved in relaying the information that 'two bodies had been found downstairs in the kitchen, the body of one dead male, and the body of one dead female'. Therefore, Bews, Myall and Saxby were fully aware from as early as 7.38am, that Sheila's body had been downstairs in the kitchen, yet not one of them has come forward to point out this fact after later learning that Sheila's body ended up on the bedroom floor in time for PC Bird to photograph it there from 10 O'clock, onwards...

Surely, because Bews, Myall and Saxby knew Sheila's  body had not even been upstairs until after 8.10am, they should have questioned how her body ended up there thereafter? Did she make her own way there? Was she carried upstairs by the police?

The simple answer is that Bews, Myall and Saxby performed Communication duties between the scene and the control room at a critical point in time, when Ralph Bamber and Sheila Caffells bodies were found downstairs in the kitchen (7.37 and 7.38am), and only a further three bodies found upstairs by 8.10am. The key radio messages that were relayed after 8.10am, onward which involved the displacement of Sheila's body from the kitchen downstairs, to the main bedroom upstairs, have not been disclosed, but Bews, Myall and Saxby would have been privy to this information. They would have known about it. But like the rest of the corrupt officers on duty that morning who have all been involved in trying to cover up the true circumstances of Sheila Caffells death, they have chosen to remain silent about it

[Adam]

You agree with Buddy then Mike, that the police pulled Sheila's legs ?

[mike tesko]

You agree with Buddy then Mike, that the police pulled Sheila's legs ?

Did anyone pull Sheila's legs?

Well, police certainly lifted her body from on top of the bed, onto the floor, that is something that I know with 100% certainty. So, with that in the bag so to speak, I ask myself did police move her body directly from the bed into 'that' position denoted by the set of photographs that PC Bird took from 10 O'clock onwards? I am drawn to the conclusion that police had laid Sheila's body in a different position on the bedroom floor than that shown in PC Birds images. I believe that at one stage prior to police rolling her body onto its back that she had been placed on her right side which is what caused the bloodstain on the upper right hand side of the nightdress. Whilst her body was in this position, obviously the gun was not with the body, it was elsewhere, possibly put back at the window. The police have made no attempt to explain how that triangular shaped bloodstain came about on the nightdress, if she had been sat upright at the time she was shot, and had simply slipped down onto the floor into the position she ended up being photographed in. What is apparent to me, is the very reason why it has been suggested that she was in a sitting posture, or leaning back slightly, comes about because in the photographs I have seen of the body on the bed Sheila was only shot once by that stage. That first shot was not inflicted upstairs at all. She was shot once downstairs. The second shot was inflicted upstairs after her body / she,  arrived there, and once her body (in an unconscious state) had been moved from the bed to the floor. Sheila was laid out on the bedroom floor when she received the second fatal shot beneath the chin. Jeremy did not shoot her, and she did not shoot herself. Once she had been shot on this second occasion, police rolled her body into the recovery position upon its right side.  At this time the rear part of her nightdress hung down behind her bottom. Afterwards her body was rolled back into the supine position, and the front hem of the nightdress adjusted so as to give Sheila a modicum of decency. This 'rolling of the body's by police left that part of the nightdress which had been hung down behind her bottom whilst she was on her right side, displaced and ruffled beneath her body by the time she ended up where PC Bird took photographs of her. A police officer may have adjusted her legs either by drawing them together or by pulling upon them, in order for the rifle to be brought back to the body and plonked upon it...

If Sheila had been shot whilst sat upright and been killed instantaneously as alleged, the triangular stain on the nightdress, and the diagonal runs of blood from her mouth and nostrils could not have occurred, neither could the rifle have ended up where it did, nor her right hand remain on the weapon...

[Adam]

You don't agree with David, that Sheila was sitting upright and shot herself twice ?

[mike tesko]

You don't agree with David, that Sheila was sitting upright and shot herself twice ?

Sheila was not shot twice whilst sat up, or laid slightly backwards she was stood upright at the time of the first shot downstairs, and she was laid out flat on her back when she was shot on the second occasion with her body being 'on the bedroom floor'. How could she have been shot twice whilst sitting upright in the bedroom, if one shot killed her immediately, and the rifle was always resting against an upstairs window since before entry by the firearm officers into the farmhouse?

Sheila did not get shot until after the entry of firearm officers, and by that stage the rifle by which is supposed to have wounded and killed her, was already in position at an upstairs window as confirmed by the WPC Julia Jeapes statement from around 7.15, onwards, and photographed there after 10 am by PC Bird...

With the rifle at the window upstairs from 7.15am, onward, how could 'that' rifle have been used to shoot Sheila if (as I maintain) she was shot initially downstairs in the kitchen when a firearm officer commenced his entry to get into the kitchen itself? If what I am saying is true, and I am assured it is true, then of course the rifle at the upstairs window could not have fired 'that' first shot. This is because Sheila was downstairs in the kitchen, whilst the rifle which has been deemed the gun which had fired both of the shots into Sheila's body, was upstairs resting against a window, here, there, or wherever...

[Adam]

The Official site says Sheila shot herself once and stayed in the kitchen. Then went upstairs after the raid team entered WHF. The police then shot the second bullet into her upstairs. 

[mike tesko]

The Official site says Sheila shot herself once and stayed in the kitchen. Then went upstairs after the raid team entered WHF. The police then shot the second bullet into her upstairs.

Yes, I am aware of their approach to the same outcome as in Sheila was shot twice in total. But, they are wrong about her shooting herself downstairs in the kitchen - what did she shoot herself with if that be true? Since, if that be true which gun did she use to shoot herself with in the kitchen after the firearm officers entered? The anshuzt rifle which is supposed to have fired both of the shots she received was still resting against an upstairs window where it had been eyeballed as being there from 7.15am, onward, so which gun did Sheila shoot herself with, if it wasn't the anshuzt rifle? And, why would police present the evidence that the same anshuzt rifle had fired both of the shots Sheila sustained?

Let's not forget that according to the ballistic expert, Fletcher, bullet PV/20 was a whole bullet, but the one recovered during autopsy by the pathologist was a fragmented bullet. How can a whole bullet, and a fragmented bullet, be the same bullet?

The ballistic evidence in this respect, involving PV/20, is plainly wrong, and the reason why the facts do not add up, is because it's manufactured evidence. You might manufacture evidence because you are trying to cover something up. Bullet PV/20 relates to the first shot, the so called 'non fatal shot'. It has been tampered with because police have attempted and succeeded in making this a one gun crime. However, Sheila was shot twice, once downstairs, and once upstairs, once downstairs with a different gun, and once upstairs with use of the anshuzt rifle from the bedroom window. The position of 'that' rifle at an upstairs window, as verified by WPC Jeapes from around 7.15am, onward, confirms by its presence there at whichever upstairs window, that Sheila Caffell had not been shot and killed by 'that' stage, since if that were the case, who had placed the anshuzt rifle at the upstairs window in time for Jeapes to see it there?

No other rifle was reportedly found in any upstairs rooms, only the anshuzt rifle...

This raises a serious question regarding Jeremy being the murderer who shot and killed his sister and the others with use of 'that' rifle. If he was the killer, and he staged his sister's body to fool the police into thinking his sister had taken her own life after she had killed the others, then why would he leave the murder weapon resting against an upstairs window? Even more bizarre, if the only weapon found upstairs was the anshuzt rifle how can 'it' be at an upstairs window, and on his sister's body, both at the same time?

Impossible...

So, if there was only one such rifle found upstairs at a window, how does that equate with Jeremy Bamber being 'the killer'?

[mike tesko]

However, if there had been a second .22 calibre rifle, 'it' being originally downstairs, and later, upstairs, then that changes the picture considerably...

Did such a second rifle potentially exist?

If so, how might it have been used in the overall scheme of things?

Who owned such a rifle?

[mike tesko]

Jeremy is adamant that two such rifles were present at the scene on the evening prior to the shootings (1) the family owned anshuzt rifle, and (2) a Bruno bolt action rifle...

[mike tesko]

Jeremy is adamant that two such rifles were present at the scene on the evening prior to the shootings (1) the family owned anshuzt rifle, and (2) a Bruno bolt action rifle...

Anthony Pargeter, the owner of the Bruno rifle, is maintaining that for one reason or another, his rifle was not at the scene at the material time...

[mike tesko]

Anthony Pargeter, the owner of the Bruno rifle, is maintaining that for one reason or another, his rifle was not at the scene at the material time...

Is his account factual, or true, or not?

[mike tesko]

Working on the assumption that the Bruno rifle was present at the scene at the time of the shootings. This adequately accounts for 10 bullets which the ballistic expert Fletcher could not link or associate to the exclusion of all other weapons the fact that these had been loaded, and fired via the anshuzt rifle.

Additionally, use of the Bruno rifle in the shootings and it's capacity to hold 10 rounds, reduces the requirement for anyone to have to load any additional bullets into the anshuzt rifle...

This could be a way of explaining the low level of lead deposits found on the hand swabs taken from Sheila on the 7th August 1985...

[mike tesko]

Working on the assumption that the Bruno rifle was present at the scene at the time of the shootings. This adequately accounts for 10 bullets which the ballistic expert Fletcher could not link or associate to the exclusion of all other weapons the fact that these had been loaded, and fired via the anshuzt rifle.

Additionally, use of the Bruno rifle in the shootings and it's capacity to hold 10 rounds, reduces the requirement for anyone to have to load any additional bullets into the anshuzt rifle...

This could be a way of explaining the low level of lead deposits found on the hand swabs taken from Sheila on the 7th August 1985...

Alternatively, the killer brought his own weapon with him to the scene, and afterwards scurried away taking his own weapon with him...