Author Topic: Who sowed the seeds  (Read 32649 times)

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Offline maggie

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Re: Who sowed the seeds
« Reply #150 on: January 12, 2017, 02:10:PM »

I don't understand why the police would frame him in the first place, what reason could there be?

Maggie I am sure you have seen the film In the name of the Father and if not I urge you to watch it

In the Guildford Four Case the police witheld a file (the file had written on DO NOT SHOW TO THE DEFENCE) which showed numerous people in this case were innocent

Why do you think the police framed these innocent people and ruined there lives
What justification could there have been

I am really interested in your answer
Hi Jackie,  as far as I can see there is no connection between the G4 and the JB case. 

I was living in London at the time of the IRA bombings and remember very clearly the fear generated by the threat of IRA bombs.  An unaccompanied parcel or bag on a tube or train was enough to cause panic among passengers.  There was a general atmosphere of anxiety so it was not surprising that many people were desperate to have the culprits of the Guilford bombings and other atrocities locked up. 

Although it was unforgivable I do understand that in such an atmosphere the police wanted a culprit and it seems anyone who was was Irish and fitted the frame would do.......  the rest is shameful history.

In the Bamber case there was no atmosphere of fear among the public, OK you could say the relatives may have been fearful but it was hardly the same scenario. 

I cannot imagine what could have occurred behind closed doors that morning which would have convinced those in charge to withdraw their announcement that Sheila Bamber had killed all her family and then killed herself and replace it with the charge that Jeremy Bamber was guilty of all 5 murders. 

If you could give a convincing answer to this then I would be open to consider it. 

I don't believe for one moment that if Sheila was shot by mistake it would have been a feasible reason to withhold evidence and condemn JB to a life in prison.  The police could have covered their mistake up well enough without going to such ridiculous lengths.  I know there is police corruption, I am well aware of that, in fact our country generally is no less corrupt than most others, we are just better at hiding it than most others. but why? ... why?  would they accuse an innocent man when they had the dead body of a guilty woman?  They had to publicly admit they had made a mistake, that must have been pretty humiliating for those in charge and I think if they were open to corruption, it would be more likely for them to have stuck with the murder suicide verdict even though they knew JB was guilty rather than do a massive public somersault and admit their failings to the world??
« Last Edit: January 12, 2017, 02:13:PM by maggie »

Offline JackiePreece

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Re: Who sowed the seeds
« Reply #151 on: January 12, 2017, 02:20:PM »
Maggie

There is no excuse for police corruption and cover ups in any case

What happened to the Guildford Four could happen and has happened to many families

No excuse what so ever
"No hour of life is wasted that is spent in the saddle" Winston Churchill

Offline Jane

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Re: Who sowed the seeds
« Reply #152 on: January 12, 2017, 02:34:PM »
Hi Jackie,  as far as I can see there is no connection between the G4 and the JB case. 

I was living in London at the time of the IRA bombings and remember very clearly the fear generated by the threat of IRA bombs.  An unaccompanied parcel or bag on a tube or train was enough to cause panic among passengers.  There was a general atmosphere of anxiety so it was not surprising that many people were desperate to have the culprits of the Guilford bombings and other atrocities locked up. 

Although it was unforgivable I do understand that in such an atmosphere the police wanted a culprit and it seems anyone who was was Irish and fitted the frame would do.......  the rest is shameful history.

In the Bamber case there was no atmosphere of fear among the public, OK you could say the relatives may have been fearful but it was hardly the same scenario. 

I cannot imagine what could have occurred behind closed doors that morning which would have convinced those in charge to withdraw their announcement that Sheila Bamber had killed all her family and then killed herself and replace it with the charge that Jeremy Bamber was guilty of all 5 murders. 

If you could give a convincing answer to this then I would be open to consider it. 

I don't believe for one moment that if Sheila was shot by mistake it would have been a feasible reason to withhold evidence and condemn JB to a life in prison.  The police could have covered their mistake up well enough without going to such ridiculous lengths.  I know there is police corruption, I am well aware of that, in fact our country generally is no less corrupt than most others, we are just better at hiding it than most others. but why? ... why?  would they accuse an innocent man when they had the dead body of a guilty woman?  They had to publicly admit they had made a mistake, that must have been pretty humiliating for those in charge and I think if they were open to corruption, it would be more likely for them to have stuck with the murder suicide verdict even though they knew JB was guilty rather than do a massive public somersault and admit their failings to the world??

LOVE it! Bloody BRILLIANT, Maggie. I just LOVE it when the voice of reason and sanity drowns out the idiotic 'facts' which get presented here, as truth.

Offline maggie

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Re: Who sowed the seeds
« Reply #153 on: January 12, 2017, 02:49:PM »
Maggie

There is no excuse for police corruption and cover ups in any case

What happened to the Guildford Four could happen and has happened to many families

No excuse what so ever
I wasn't making any excuses Jackie, I am always on the side of the underdog to the irritation of many but don't believe JB is the underdog in this case. 

Offline maggie

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Re: Who sowed the seeds
« Reply #154 on: January 12, 2017, 02:50:PM »
LOVE it! Bloody BRILLIANT, Maggie. I just LOVE it when the voice of reason and sanity drowns out the idiotic 'facts' which get presented here, as truth.
:) :) :)

Offline notsure

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Re: Who sowed the seeds
« Reply #155 on: January 12, 2017, 03:03:PM »
:) :) :)

haven't we completely missed the point though here Jane and maggie. There is no excuse not one single excuse that should allow the police to frame anyone. Not one single person. To say that any irish man would do makes it even worse doesn't it.

This isn't made up as fact Jane it is fact, police framed the Birmingham six and Guildford 4 , that was just awful.

Online Roch

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Re: Who sowed the seeds
« Reply #156 on: January 12, 2017, 03:09:PM »
I think some 'guilters' seem to be working themselves up in to a frenzy. 

Every dog has his day...

Offline Jane

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Re: Who sowed the seeds
« Reply #157 on: January 12, 2017, 03:14:PM »
I note that supporters of Jeremy frequently resort to telling us about those injustices which happened to, for example G4, and to others, the implication being that if it happened to them, ergo, it HAD to have happened to Jeremy. NEWS FLASH. It may have happened to any number of others -and if they were innocent it's indefensible- but it doesn't automatically mean that Jeremy is one of their number...............because he isn't.

Offline notsure

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Re: Who sowed the seeds
« Reply #158 on: January 12, 2017, 03:22:PM »
I note that supporters of Jeremy frequently resort to telling us about those injustices which happened to, for example G4, and to others, the implication being that if it happened to them, ergo, it HAD to have happened to Jeremy. NEWS FLASH. It may have happened to any number of others -and if they were innocent it's indefensible- but it doesn't automatically mean that Jeremy is one of their number...............because he isn't.

well I agree it is indefensible, but it's a sad fact that if police weren't corrupt in the first place we wouldn't b able to use those injustices as examples.

Offline Jane

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Re: Who sowed the seeds
« Reply #159 on: January 12, 2017, 03:27:PM »
haven't we completely missed the point though here Jane and maggie. There is no excuse not one single excuse that should allow the police to frame anyone. Not one single person. To say that any irish man would do makes it even worse doesn't it.

This isn't made up as fact Jane it is fact, police framed the Birmingham six and Guildford 4 , that was just awful.

Notsure, there was no excuse for what the Nazi's did to Jews and others during the war, but we don't now treat all Germans as racist and we don't expect them to keep doing abeyance for it. The way we imported slaves was hardly a time we can be proud of but we can't go on apologizing. OK it's FACT that police framed B6 and G4 but it was during a time of political unrest -NOT an excuse, I know- you appear to be saying that the police have to make restitution for these acts -despite that there probably aren't any in the force now, who were then- by absolving all criminals SOME believe innocent. Problem is there are always going to be differences of opinion so it COULD mean that ALL the guilty go free. This isn't a perfect world -if it was, there'd be no crimes- mistakes WILL be made. Mistakes were made in the investigation at WHF -primarily because of how Jeremy mislead the initial investigation- but the eventual outcome was the correct one.

Offline Jane

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Re: Who sowed the seeds
« Reply #160 on: January 12, 2017, 03:28:PM »
I think some 'guilters' seem to be working themselves up in to a frenzy. 

Every dog has his day...

And Jeremy certainly made the most of his.

Offline Jane

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Re: Who sowed the seeds
« Reply #161 on: January 12, 2017, 03:30:PM »
well I agree it is indefensible, but it's a sad fact that if police weren't corrupt in the first place we wouldn't b able to use those injustices as examples.

Are you labeling as corrupt every member of the force, Notsure?

Offline JackiePreece

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Re: Who sowed the seeds
« Reply #162 on: January 12, 2017, 03:49:PM »
I note that supporters of Jeremy frequently resort to telling us about those injustices which happened to, for example G4, and to others, the implication being that if it happened to them, ergo, it HAD to have happened to Jeremy. NEWS FLASH. It may have happened to any number of others -and if they were innocent it's indefensible- but it doesn't automatically mean that Jeremy is one of their number...............because he isn't.

You don't know Jeremy is guilty

Unless you were there

Fact
"No hour of life is wasted that is spent in the saddle" Winston Churchill

Offline JackiePreece

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Re: Who sowed the seeds
« Reply #163 on: January 12, 2017, 03:50:PM »
haven't we completely missed the point though here Jane and maggie. There is no excuse not one single excuse that should allow the police to frame anyone. Not one single person. To say that any irish man would do makes it even worse doesn't it.

This isn't made up as fact Jane it is fact, police framed the Birmingham six and Guildford 4 , that was just awful.

Thank you Notsure

Some members here seem to be suggesting police corruption is ok in different cases
"No hour of life is wasted that is spent in the saddle" Winston Churchill

Offline Caroline

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Re: Who sowed the seeds
« Reply #164 on: January 12, 2017, 03:53:PM »
You don't know Jeremy is guilty

Unless you were there

Fact

You don't know he's innocent unless you were there! Of course, using this silly frame of reference, no one would EVER be convicted  ::)
« Last Edit: January 12, 2017, 03:54:PM by Caroline »
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