Who sowed the seeds

[Roch]

So? What has that got to do with Bamber?

Would depend upon whether there is any commonality with regard to underhand police tactics across the two cases. Also whether or not any kind of political agenda influenced both convictions being upheld. For example, not wanting to bring the justice system in to disrepute etc. I'm afraid I don't know much about Guildford Four. 

[Caroline]

Instead of asking Maggie, or others. Why don't you read up about the Guildford 4 case and see the reasons why they were fitted up for yourself. It's unlikely you will listen to Maggie or indeed anyone for that matter. It's best you see it with your own eyes Jackie.

You are wasting your time making posts like this, as any response you receive wont be good enough for you. You need to find out for yourself. Read about what was going on in Ireland at the time.

The Guildford 4 were fitted up because the police needed to appease the public. The were arrested and convicted because they had northern Irish connections and made a confession under duress. The G4 were  genuine MOJ and suffered as political prisoners - whereas Jeremy Bamber isn't. The police had no one in mind for the Guildford bombings and any northern Irish suspects would do - EP had a ready made culprit in Sheila but realised it couldn't have been her. They changed tack and in doing so, made themselves look incompetent - they certainly wouldn't have done that unless they were sure of their initial mistake.

The Guildford 4 and Bamber are poles apart!

[Stephanie]

The Guildford 4 were fitted up because the police needed to appease the public. The were arrested and convicted because they had northern Irish connections and made a confession under duress. The G4 were  genuine MOJ and suffered as political prisoners - whereas Jeremy Bamber isn't. The police had no one in mind for the Guildford bombings and any northern Irish suspects would do - EP had a ready made culprit in Sheila but realised it couldn't have been her. They changed tack and in doing so, made themselves look incompetent - they certainly wouldn't have done that unless they were sure of their initial mistake.

The Guildford 4 and Bamber are poles apart!

Seconded!

[Caroline]

Would depend upon whether there is any commonality with regard to underhand police tactics across the two cases. Also whether or not any kind of political agenda influenced both convictions being upheld. For example, not wanting to bring the justice system in to disrepute etc. I'm afraid I don't know much about Guildford Four.

As stated above, at the time when the G4 were convicted, the police were under enormous pressure from both the public and the establishment. to round up IRA terror cells operating in this country. I imagine that Irish people were looked at with suspicion and prejudice. The G4 were (apart from Carol Richardson) all from NI, they were working class young men and an easy scapegoat. The police needed a conviction and these 4 just fit the bill.

Jeremy Bamber was a middle class farmers son - if the police knew he was innocent, why would they fit him up?

[Stephanie]

As stated above, at the time when the G4 were convicted, the police were under enormous pressure from both the public and the establishment. to round up IRA terror cells operating in this country. I imagine that Irish people were looked at with suspicion and prejudice. The G4 were (apart from Carol Richardson) all from NI, they were working class young men and an easy scapegoat. The police needed a conviction and these 4 just fit the bill.

Jeremy Bamber was a middle class farmers son - if the police knew he was innocent, why would they fit him up?

Doesn't being a farmers son make him working class?

I think he uses the middle class BS to hide behind.

Anyway, he wasn't even working when he was arrested! Surely that makes him a bum or a scrounger. Jackie will know. She's good on subjects like this.

[Caroline]

Doesn't being a farmers son make him working class?

No, if he had been a farm hand (not the farmers son), he'd have been working class. He attened private school and they were land owners. Defo not working class.

[Roch]

if the police knew he was innocent, why would they fit him up?

That's the six million dollar question Caroline. But fit him up they did.  Why did they lie about Hillsborough? Personally I don't have a problem with the concept of police trying to cover mistakes and in doing so, unwittingly digging a large hole for themselves. Where I do have a problem is why the police couldn't just tell the relatives if Nevill had phoned the police. But then we don't know what Taff Jones discussed with the relatives that made two of them concede Sheila could have killed everyone. Conveniently, Ann can't remember. I've tried to work out whether there might be a reason as to why police didn't tell them (i.e. in a scenario where a call did take place). I've wondered whether more mistakes where made that morning - as yet not touched upon. 

[Stephanie]

No, if he had been a farm hand (not the farmers son), he'd have been working class. He attened private school and they were land owners. Defo not working class.

I think he uses the middle class BS to hide behind.

Anyway, he wasn't even working when he was arrested! Surely that makes him a bum or a scrounger. Jackie will know. She's good on subjects like this.

[Stephanie]

That's the six million dollar question Caroline. But fit him up they did.  Why did they lie about Hillsborough? Personally I don't have a problem with the concept of police trying to cover mistakes and in doing so, unwittingly digging a large hole for themselves. Where I do have a problem is why the police couldn't just tell the relatives if Nevill had phoned the police. But then we don't know what Taff Jones discussed with the relatives that made two of them concede Sheila could have killed everyone. Conveniently, Ann can't remember. I've tried to work out whether there might be a reason as to why police didn't tell them (i.e. in a scenario where a call did take place). I've wondered whether more mistakes where made that morning - as yet not touched upon.

Six million dollars? Bit OTT Roch. No one will be getting a penny not least of all Jeremy.

He wasn't fitted up though. He was guilty as sin. If you read all the docs in this case you will see that the Crown don't believe the call from Nevill existed.

The relatives knew Jeremy was guilty, as, like many of us now, they'd figured him out long before.

Normal people don't go around repeatedly stating they want to kill their parents. That's the sign of deep seated hatred; not based on genuine love.

Nothing Jeremy has ever said about his family is based on real love.

[Caroline]

That's the six million dollar question Caroline. But fit him up they did.  Why did they lie about Hillsborough? Personally I don't have a problem with the concept of police trying to cover mistakes and in doing so, unwittingly digging a large hole for themselves. Where I do have a problem is why the police couldn't just tell the relatives if Nevill had phoned the police. But then we don't know what Taff Jones discussed with the relatives that made two of them concede Sheila could have killed everyone. Conveniently, Ann can't remember. I've tried to work out whether there might be a reason as to why police didn't tell them (i.e. in a scenario where a call did take place). I've wondered whether more mistakes where made that morning - as yet not touched upon.

The difference between the G4, B6, Hillsborough and Jeremy Bamber are monumental. The first three cases affect the establishment - Jeremy Bamber didn't. He wasn't that important Roch. If Nevill called the police, Taff would have told the relatives. If Nevill had called West before Jeremy did, he'd have told Jeremy that the incident was being dealt with - there would have been no reason for him not to. The whole keeping of this secret would involve too many to have kept quiet for all these years and every single one of them would know an innocent man was framed - someone would have broken their silence by now. It doesn't add up, Jeremy Bamber wasn't that important to risk so many careers.

[Stephanie]

The difference between the G4, B6, Hillsborough and Jeremy Bamber are monumental. The first three cases affect the establishment - Jeremy Bamber didn't. He wasn't that important Roch. If Nevill called the police, Taff would have told the relatives. If Nevill had called West before Jeremy did, he'd have told Jeremy that the incident was being dealt with - there would have been no reason for him not to. The whole keeping of this secret would involve too many to have kept quiet for all these years and every single one of them would know an innocent man was framed - someone would have broken their silence by now. It doesn't add up, Jeremy Bamber wasn't that important to risk so many careers.

But he likes to think he is as do some of his ardent supporters.

[Caroline]

But he likes to think he is as do some of his ardent supporters.

But in the grand scheme of things, he wasn't/isn't. The G4 and B6 were political prisoners and Hillsborough was a MASSIVE blunder that had repercussions for the establishment Bamber was just ....... a bloke. Who would risk all for 'a bloke'? Especially when they had a ready made culprit in Sheila.

[Stephanie]

But in the grand scheme of things, he wasn't/isn't. The G4 and B6 were political prisoners and Hillsborough was a MASSIVE blunder that had repercussions for the establishment Bamber was just ....... a bloke. Who would risk all for 'a bloke'? Especially when they had a ready made culprit in Sheila.

He was quite clearly a free loader!

Not only did he accept handouts from the bank of mum and dad, he robbed them blind - stage managing the crime scene until he was arrested a month after the murders and finally admitted he's done it to prove a point and staged the scene as he knew he would be number one suspect. What's middle class about this? These are the acts of a criminal!

His weed growing and selling isn't the behavior of any middle class person I know of. It's criminal!

Julie nearly risked all for a 'bloke.' But recognised the error of her ways.

[Jane]

That's the six million dollar question Caroline. But fit him up they did.  Why did they lie about Hillsborough? Personally I don't have a problem with the concept of police trying to cover mistakes and in doing so, unwittingly digging a large hole for themselves. Where I do have a problem is why the police couldn't just tell the relatives if Nevill had phoned the police. But then we don't know what Taff Jones discussed with the relatives that made two of them concede Sheila could have killed everyone. Conveniently, Ann can't remember. I've tried to work out whether there might be a reason as to why police didn't tell them (i.e. in a scenario where a call did take place). I've wondered whether more mistakes where made that morning - as yet not touched upon.

They could hardly have told relatives Nevill HADN'T phoned them. Why would they? Some people just like to make conspiracies where none exist. It seems to me that even if relatives/any other persons know someone is capable of committing/has committed a crime, they not been permitted to voice such an opinion in case they wrongly incriminate.

[Jane]

He was quite clearly a free loader!

Not only did he accept handouts from the bank of mum and dad, he robbed them blind - stage managing the crime scene until he was arrested a month after the murders and finally admitted he's done it to prove a point and staged the scene as he knew he would be number one suspect. What's middle class about this? These are the acts of a criminal!

His weed growing and selling isn't the behavior of any middle class person I know of. It's criminal!

Julie nearly risked all for a 'bloke.' But recognised the error of her ways.

I thought I'd share this with you.

My very elderly and infirm mother would fall asleep leaving he back door unlocked. I warned her frequently that a thief could get in and out without her knowledge but she took no notice. One day I decided to prove my point. I walked into her bedroom, picked up all her jewellery -at which point, I could have walked out with it!!- I then went into the sitting room, where she was dozing, woke her up and showed her the jewellery in my hands. I DIDN'T flog it and spend the money. Did Jeremy recompense his family?........................... (Rather than acknowledging that I may have had a point, she told me it was none of my business. 3 weeks later, all the bungalows in her complex were broken into and her jewellery and other items were stolen!!!!!!!!)