What makes Bamber innocent?

[Caroline]

That's what your doing not me

We will have to agree to disagree on this, I don't think the CCRC were saying they accepted Fowlers report, you do - neither of us is going to budge.

[Adam]

Neither is "Sheila could have crawled inside the gun cupboard and tried to shoot herself. Realising that the gun was too long she unscrewed it and dropped it in the box. Then she became distracted and went up to the bedroom." That makes no sense whatsoever.

I said earlier today that I had never thought of that scenario from Lebaleb before.  I suspect I wasn't the only one.

[David1819]

What were the burn marks then ?

I believe the marks were caused by the rifle sans silencer its the only plausible explanation put forward to date. Tho I am open to other possibilities if they come to light.

You believe the experts when it comes to the muzzle marks on Neville but not on Sheila. Why?

There is no rational reason to poke Nevilles back with a heated barrel. If this took place it points to Sheila doing it, because it shows the killer is not thinking rationally.

[Adam]

I believe the marks were caused by the rifle sans silencer its the only plausible explanation put forward to date. Tho I am open to other possibilities if they come to light.

You believe the experts when it comes to the muzzle marks on Neville but not on Sheila. Why?

There is no rational reason to poke Nevilles back with a heated barrel. If this took place it points to Sheila doing it, because it shows the killer is not thinking rationally.

Good. We both agree Neville's burn marks were caused on the night.

You believe Sheila did it with the Sans silencer because she was not thinking rationally.

I believe Bamber did it with the rifle nozzle to check for signs of life.

What is a sans silencer ?

[David1819]

Good. We both agree Neville's burn marks were caused on the night.

You believe Sheila did it with the Sans silencer because she was not thinking rationally.

I believe Bamber did it with the rifle nozzle to check for signs of life.

What is a sans silencer ?

Sans silencer = Without silencer

[Adam]

I've agreed for a long time the burn marks on Neville were carried out without the silencer attached.

You believe Sheila took the silencer off and put it away. Then burnt Neville's back. Because she was not acting rationally.

I believe Bamber took it off either upstairs when shooting Sheila. Or downstairs when deciding to burn Neville's back to check for signs of life. Before exiting via the kitchen window. Either way he had to put the silencer away, but had no time to clean it. 

[David1819]

I've agreed for a long time the burn marks on Neville were carried out without the silencer attached.

You believe Sheila took the silencer off and put it away. Then burnt Neville's back. Because she was not acting rationally.

I believe Bamber took it off either upstairs when shooting Sheila. Or downstairs when deciding to burn Neville's back before exiting the kitchen window. Either way he had to put the silencer away.

No I believe in such scenario Sheila would not place the silencer on the rifle nor remove it. The silencer would be on cupboard the entire event untouched. The same can be said in a situation with Jeremy, however there is no rational or plausible reason for Jeremy to burn Nevilles back. I am sure Jeremy would be satisfied Neville was dead after shooting him three times in the head and twice in the face don't you?

[Adam]

No I believe in such scenario Sheila would not place the silencer on the rifle nor remove it. The silencer would be on cupboard the entire event untouched. The same can be said in a situation with Jeremy, however there is no rational or plausible reason for Jeremy to burn Nevilles back. I am sure Jeremy would be satisfied Neville was dead after shooting him three times in the head and twice in the face don't you?

Well the judge correctly said Neville put up a 'tremendous fight for life' in the kitchen. After being shot 4 times. So there is no harm in Bamber checking for signs of life just before he leaves via the kitchen window. He had the time to do this.

How did human/Sheila's blood, the aga paint and a grey hair get in the silencer then ?

Do you agree the 'treacherous' Stan Jones secretly took a silencer  from WHF on the 7th August 1985, as Lookout said ?

[Adam]

Actually Bamber may have burnt Nevilles back prior to firing all bullets into him.

Perhaps after Bamber immobilised Neville with the rifle butt and after Bamber returned downstairs from finishing things off with everyone else upstairs.

Neville may have moved from the burns, people tend to. So Bamber shot him a few more times.

[sami]

Neville was bludgeoned with the rifle. The rifle could easily have broken the lampshade. Another thing is the sugar bowl. It was filled with Demerara sugar which is sticky and dense. If dropped on the floor it doesn't spread out very far.

yes neville staggering around couldnt have broken the lampshade ,the broken rifle stock tells us the rifle was used with extreme power for it to break.far more than what sheila had.'power i mean'

[mike tesko]

A silencer 'was' fitted to the barrel of the rifle which fired the 'non fatal ' shot (bullet PV/20) - it left its mark upon Sheila's neck, whereas, there was no such circular mark around the 'fatal' wound associated with bullet PV/19.  The corresponding mark around the lower 'non fatal' wound had a radius which matched that of the end of a silencer...

[maggie]

I've agreed for a long time the burn marks on Neville were carried out without the silencer attached.

You believe Sheila took the silencer off and put it away. Then burnt Neville's back. Because she was not acting rationally.

I believe Bamber took it off either upstairs when shooting Sheila. Or downstairs when deciding to burn Neville's back to check for signs of life. Before exiting via the kitchen window. Either way he had to put the silencer away, but had no time to clean it.

Hi Adam,  how do you believe JB was able to heat the rifle end to such a temperature it caused those burns on Nevill's back?

[mike tesko]

A silencer 'was' fitted to the barrel of the rifle which fired the 'non fatal ' shot (bullet PV/20) - it left its mark upon Sheila's neck, whereas, there was no such circular mark around the 'fatal' wound associated with bullet PV/19.  The corresponding mark around the lower 'non fatal' wound had a radius which matched that of the end of a silencer...

The original investigation which presented the case as 'four murders, and a suicide ' was rocked before the end of the first week, by sensitive information concerning the mark made by a silencer at the time cops shot Sheila in the kitchen, was leaked to relatives, by PC 'Bobby, Carr (Metropolitan police officer, and close friend of the relatives)

[maggie]

Good. We both agree Neville's burn marks were caused on the night.

You believe Sheila did it with the Sans silencer because she was not thinking rationally.

I believe Bamber did it with the rifle nozzle to check for signs of life.

What is a sans silencer ?

I find it really hard to believe that either JB or Sheila would have gone to all the trouble of heating up the end of the rifle to test for signs of life.  Surely there are far more efficient ways of checking, such as a bullet between the eyes.  To heat the rifle end to the required temperature would mean shoving it into a very hot fire such as the aga fire but surely that would waste time.  I am not convinced by this at all.

[mike tesko]

He let the cat out of the bag, information which stunned senior officers, because leaked information about the mark around the lower entry wound on Sheila's neck meant that she could not have shot herself 'twice' with use of the same rifle that cops had photographed on her body, since 'it' had no silencer attached to it...