Author Topic: What makes Bamber innocent?  (Read 351505 times)

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Offline Adam

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Re: What makes Bamber innocent?
« Reply #2985 on: June 26, 2016, 09:16:PM »
Nothing in this case adds up. They also tested the silencer for prints yet apparenty found nothing, How?

Is this yet another reason why DI Cooks 1990 COLP interview tapes happened to disappear without explanation?

Maybe Bamber wore gloves. If the police were going to lie they would say Bamber's prints were on the silencer.

1990 interview. Why should these be kept ?
« Last Edit: June 26, 2016, 09:21:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline mike tesko

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Re: What makes Bamber innocent?
« Reply #2986 on: June 26, 2016, 09:44:PM »
Cops 'withheld' the fingerprint evidence, aforementioned, because its existence portrayed Sheila as the killer who had loaded additional bullets into one of the two guns that were used in the shootings.  The fingerprint reference I have drawn attention too, is not imaginary.  Cops knew that Sheila was responsible for the deaths of the other four victims, and secondly they knew that Jeremy had played no role in his sisters death because Sheila was still alive when cops entered the farmhouse. The 'fingerprint evidence' which belonged to her, made a 'mockery' of the hand swab evidence ( which was chiefly one of the reasons why the fingerprint evidence from the cartridges were withheld ), since how could the prosecution seek to rely on the lack of lead deposit on the hand swabs taken from Sheila to suggest that she could not have handled the additional bullets needed to carry out the murders, when her fingerprints were all over several of the cartridges?
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline David1819

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Re: What makes Bamber innocent?
« Reply #2987 on: June 26, 2016, 10:09:PM »
Maybe Bamber wore gloves. If the police were going to lie they would say Bamber's prints were on the silencer.

The silencer was handled by other people after the murders! so how can they find nothing?

plus they would have to somehow plant prints on the silencer to then present in court. It much easier to deny they found anything


1990 interview. Why should these be kept ?

Same reason why everything else is kept

Offline mike tesko

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Re: What makes Bamber innocent?
« Reply #2988 on: June 26, 2016, 10:13:PM »
Arguably, the biggest mistake made by Essex police, a part from their involvement in the extraordinary circumstances of Sheila Caffells death after cops entered the farmhouse, is the 'fact' that they 'overlooked' the pact involving Sheila herself in the murders of the others with the help of an accomplice. She had not overpowered and out fought her father all by herself, she had been helped and supported in the carrying out of these murders, not with use of a single gun, but two different ones. She used one of the guns, her accomplice used the other...

I originally believed that Jeremy was Sheila's accomplice, but he wasn't...

The South African 'Ralph Neville' who was Sheila's accomplice, had been involved in a series of shooting incidents back in South Africa, and he had fled to the UK to try to put the recent past behind him. Ralph Neville was the figure seen moving around in the main bedroom, when Bews, Myall and Jeremy himself went to recce the farmhouse. He was the 'scruffy looking hunched man' seen walking out of the grounds of the farmhouse about an hour after the occupants of CA07 first arrived....

The 'hitman' theory was born out of the sighting of Sheila's accomplice. It was the correct decision  not to prosecute Matthew MacDonald. But having to let him go, left a void that needed filling. The sighting of Sheila's accomplice at the bedroom window, and about an hour later when her accomplice walked away from the scene unchallenged, was 'problematic' in the case of arresting Bamber as the killer who had acted alone, because he was with the police outside the farmhouse at around 4am, with the accomplice in the main bedroom at that time. Furthermore,  Bamber was sat with PS Saxby in the patrol car that was parked up in pages lane, when the accomplice was seen walking away from the farmhouse. Hence, why Bews promoted the 'trick of light', explanation...
« Last Edit: June 26, 2016, 10:16:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Adam

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Re: What makes Bamber innocent?
« Reply #2989 on: June 26, 2016, 10:15:PM »
The silencer was handled by other people after the murders! so how can they find nothing?

plus they would have to somehow plant prints on the silencer to then present in court. It much easier to deny they found anything

Same reason why everything else is kept

Why would the police report that AE's or Neville's  fingerprints were on the silencer ? Everyone knows they handled it and it does not prove any guilt or innocence.

What did you think of Bamber's 90's dirty protest over a police decision ?
« Last Edit: June 26, 2016, 10:16:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline sami

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Re: What makes Bamber innocent?
« Reply #2990 on: June 26, 2016, 10:26:PM »
Why would the police report that AE's or Neville's  fingerprints were on the silencer ? Everyone knows they handled it and it does not prove any guilt or innocence.

What did you think of Bamber's 90's dirty protest over a police decision ?
exactly adam. ;D

Offline mike tesko

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Re: What makes Bamber innocent?
« Reply #2991 on: June 26, 2016, 10:27:PM »
Cops did get ' fingerprints' from the two cartridge cases (DRH/1, DRH/2) found alongside Sheila's body. It's documented, there exist the fingerprint reference relating to these fingerprints having been found...

Hand swab evidence was dodgy,  existence of the fingerprint reference ( 31340/85 ) providing 'contradictory' evidence' of that fact..
« Last Edit: June 26, 2016, 10:29:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: What makes Bamber innocent?
« Reply #2992 on: June 26, 2016, 11:38:PM »
Why would the police report that AE's or Neville's  fingerprints were on the silencer ? Everyone knows they handled it and it does not prove any guilt or innocence. Wrong, the presence of their fingerprints on the second silencer that Ann Eaton handed to DC Oakey on the 11th September 1985, took place 'long after' 'Ron' Cook had exposed the 'first silencer' to 'superglue treatment' on the 23rd August 1985.The truth of the matter is, that DS Davidson (SOCO) and DS Eastwood (SOCO)fingerprinted the second silencer at 1800 hrs on the 13th September 1985, by which stage the first silencer which 'Ron' Cook had fingerprinted using an 'oblique light test' on the 15th August 1985, and by 'superglue treatment' on the 23rd August 1985, had already been submitted to the lab' on the 30th August 1985. If Davidson and Eastwood had tried to fingerprint the first silencer again, it would have been a pointless exercise because by the 13th September 1985, the first silencer was already coated with the white residue of the cynoacrylate fumes  from Cooks test on the 23rd August 1985. The tests performed by Davidson and Eastwood on the second silencer (13th September) were carried out to try to confirm who had actually handled 'it', at a time when cops suspected the relatives of trying to frame Jeremy for the murders. David Boutflours, Ann Eaton's, Robert Boutflours, and Peter Eaton's fingerprints were found on the second silencer. The reason the cops did not disclose this 'fingerprint' evidence obtained from examination of the second silencer, was because to have done so, would conflict with the claim made by the relatives and the cops, that David Boutflour had only found one silencer, not two. If Davidson and Eastwood had come forward to say that they had found relatives fingerprints on the silencer when they examined it on the 13th September 1985, it would have inadvertently exposed the claim that there had only been one silencer, the truth hinging on the date 'Ron' Cook fingerprinted the first silencer (23rd August 1985) by way of superglue treatment, which would have left the first silencer coated in white residue and rendering it impossible for anyone to get access to fingerprints beneath the coating of white reside...

The game would have been well and truly up...

« Last Edit: June 26, 2016, 11:42:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline David1819

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Re: What makes Bamber innocent?
« Reply #2993 on: June 26, 2016, 11:54:PM »
Why would the police report that AE's or Neville's  fingerprints were on the silencer ? Everyone knows they handled it and it does not prove any guilt or innocence.

That's the whole point there would be prints on it so how comes they did not report finding any?


What did you think of Bamber's 90's dirty protest over a police decision ?

Not allot

Offline Adam

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Re: What makes Bamber innocent?
« Reply #2994 on: June 27, 2016, 12:09:AM »
That's the whole point there would be prints on it so how comes they did not report finding any?


Not allot

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,6097.msg270722.html#msg270722

There is a five page thread on his dirty protest. But I appreciate Bamber's supporters  like to portray him as a model prisoner.

If the police reported no prints, then there were no prints that could be distinguished.

« Last Edit: June 27, 2016, 12:11:AM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline David1819

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Re: What makes Bamber innocent?
« Reply #2995 on: June 27, 2016, 12:59:AM »
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,6097.msg270722.html#msg270722

There is a five page thread on his dirty protest. But I appreciate Bamber's supporters  like to portray him as a model prisoner.


Well, how would you react if you had been wrongly banged up then only to hear the police deny any wrongdoing?

 id be pretty pissed off wont you?

Offline Adam

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Re: What makes Bamber innocent?
« Reply #2996 on: June 27, 2016, 01:10:AM »
Well, how would you react if you had been wrongly banged up then only to hear the police deny any wrongdoing?

 id be pretty pissed off wont you?

When in August 1992 the Police Complaints Authority dismissed Jeremy's concerns over the way the original investigation was handled by Essex Constabulary, he joined five other inmates in Franklin, Durham in wrecking their cells and pasting the words “FREE BAMBER HE IS INNOCENT” in excrement on the walls.

It seems that the 'independent' Police Complaints Authority, 7 years later, thought the police handled the investigation correctly
« Last Edit: June 27, 2016, 01:12:AM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline mike tesko

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Re: What makes Bamber innocent?
« Reply #2997 on: June 27, 2016, 08:24:AM »
DS 'Stan' Jones's fingerprints, would also have been present on the first silencer, as opposed to DC Oakeys fingerprints being present upon the second silencer...
« Last Edit: June 27, 2016, 08:27:AM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: What makes Bamber innocent?
« Reply #2998 on: June 27, 2016, 09:43:AM »
Cops and relatives can insist there was only ever the 'one silencer' found at the scene, but the truth of the matter is that two different identical looking ones were recovered, the first belonging to Anthony Pargeters ,Bruno rifle', and the second one belonging to the Bamber  family owned 'anshuzt rifle'. The first one handed over to DS 'Stan' Jones, by Peter Eaton on the 12th August 1985, the second one handed over to DC Oakey by Ann Eaton on the 11th September 1985. None of the items which eventually were given 'DRB' exhibit references, found their way into police possession until on or after the 11th September 1985. This 'triggered' widespread editing of documentary evidence in the investigation, where the exhibit references to the first silencer (SJ or SBJ/1) were abruptly 'altered' because there had originally been some confusion over who had found 'this' silencer (DS 'Stan' Jones, or David Boutflour) and so 'it' got made into 'DB/1' by the 30th August 1985. However, once the second silencer was handed over to DC Oakey by Ann Eaton on the 11th September 1985, which DS Davidson and DS Eastwood had 'fingerprinted' on the 13th September 1985, and then which had been submitted to the lab' on the 20th September 1985, to be checked for 'blood' and 'fibres, cops decided to 'merge' both of these identical looking silencers into one. By the 17th November 1985, further steps were taken to 'alter' documentary evidence, thereby making it possible for the authorities to present the silencer as 'exhibit DRB/1'...

PI 'Bob' Miller (Operations manager) was tasked with trying to make sure that the exhibit reference to the silencer that was to be relied upon at the forthcoming trial, would all be 'DRB/1'. This can be verified by independent hand written notes upon which 'Miller' gives instruction for various witness statements to be 'altered'  by making the silencer exhibit references into DRB/1', from, 'DB/1', and 'SBJ/1'. What this demonstrates is that cops did not simply swap over the key silencers, but that a lot of effort had gone into trying to create a false 'continuity' trail by 'altering' witness statement, as well as lab' records, as can be evidenced by the aforementioned explanation. During the trial, the silencer was always referred to, and mentioned, by referring to 'its' exhibit reference of 'DRB/1', lab' item number 22. There was no clues available at that stage for anyone to know about the full history behind the covert introduction of the second silencer, which had replaced the first one. No incline that the silencer exhibited during the trial, had in fact not been the same silencer which Peter Eaton had handed over to 'Stan' Jones on the 12th August 1985. The silencer relied upon during the trial, had not been the same silencer which 'Stan' Jones had shown to 'Bob' Miller on the morning of the 13th August 1985, which Miller had instructed Jones to give 'it' to 'Ron' Cook that same date ('it' being a different silencer than the one which would eventually be relied upon during the trial). The silencer relied upon during the October 1986 trial was not the same silencer which 'Ron' Cook had taken to the lab'at Huntingdon for Glynis Howard to examine on that same date, upon which was found 'animals' and Human' bloods. The silencer which was eventually relied upon during the trial was not the same silencer which Glynis Howard had handed back to 'Ron' Cook on the 13th August 1985. Neither was 'that' particular silencer which Cook had 'fingerprinted on the 15th August 1985' by way of an oblique light test, the same silencer relied on during the trial, nor was 'it' the same silencer that 'Ron' Cook once more had ' fingerprinted' by 'superglue technique' on the 23rd August 1985. The silencer relied upon during the October 1986 trial (DRB/1) was not the same silencer which Cook had been carrying around in his grubby coat pocket for 17 days and nights (between 13th to 30th August 1985), and which he had himself dismantled, rebuilt and had screwed ' that' silencer directly onto the barrel of the anshuzt rifle. The silencer (DB/1) that Cook had sent to the lab' at Huntingdon on the 30th August 1985, for the attention of the ballistic expert, 'Malcolm' Fletcher, inside which it has been claimed the key flake of dried blood was subsequently obtained on the 12th September 1975, cannot and was not the same silencer relied upon during the trial on the following year. No, none of those events involved 'the silencer' which came to be relied upon during the trial...

The silencer (DRB/1) that came to be relied upon during the trial, was the one Ann Eaton handed to DC Oakey on the 11th September 1985. It was ' the silencer' (DRB/1) which DS Davidson and DS Eastwood had 'fingerprinted at 1800 hrs on the 13th September 1985. 'It' was the silencer (DRB/1) which got sent to the lab'' at Huntingdon on the 20th September 1985, to be 'checked' for 'blood' and 'fibers'. The silencer (DRB/1) which found itself at the heart of the prosecutions case when Bamber stood trial in October 1986, was the same silencer which was 'examined' at the lab' on I think was the 29th April 1986, by amongst others, Glynis Howard, in the company of a defence expert, at a time when the internal baffle plates of 'it' had the jaws of the baffles upward facing, whereas, when 'Ron' Cook had dismantled the 'other' silencer on the 29th August 1985, the jaws of the baffle plates of 'that' silencer had been 'downward facing'...

What we now know, is that the key blood group evidence ( A, EAP BA, AK/1, and HP2/1) could 'not' have been recovered from inside the silencer (DRB/1) relied upon during the trial, quite simply because by the time 'that' (DRB/1) silencer got sent to the lab' (20th September 1985) to be checked for 'blood', the key flake of dried blood had 'already been 'found' inside the 'other' silencer (DB/1) 9 days beforehand, and furthermore, the flake itself, had 'already' been analysed, and the aforementioned blood group activity 'obtained', long before the second silencer (DRB/1) had even been sent to be examined at the lab'. So, there it is, laid out threadbare, 'the flake' was 'not' found' inside the silencer (DRB/1) relied upon during the trial. His flake had and must have been found in the other silencer (DB/1), the silencer that cops had sent to the lab' 21 days before the second silencer (DRB/1) got sent there. The court was therefore, deceived by the relatives, the cops, and scientific staff at Huntingdon, because they all knew that there had been two different identical parker hale silencers at the heart of the police investigation and that the key blood group evidence surounding the flake ( A, EAP BA, AK/1, and HP2/1) did 'not' originate from inside 'DRB/1', but rather, that it originated from inside the 'other' silencer (DB/1)...

The confusion over who had 'found' the silencer which 'Ron' Cook had taken to the lab' on 13th August 1985, arose because Cook had it in his mind 'on that date' that DS Jones had been the finder of 'that' silencer (SJ, or SBJ/1). This was because on the 7th August 1985, DS 'Stan' Jones had returned to the scene from Jeremy's cottage, and whilst present at the farmhouse DS Jones had seized or taken four exhibits (SBJ/1, 2, 3 and 4). One of those items (SBJ/1) being 'a silencer'. What Cook did not know on the 13th August 1985, was that Peter Eaton had handed the first of the two silencers over to DS Jones, on the previous evening. Hence why, according to Cook, upon arriving at the lab' with 'that' silencer, he attached an exhibit label, and marked it with the identifying mark oi 'SJ/1', not SBJ/1. The reason Cook marked that silencer 'SJ/1' was because Cook told COLP that he was 'unaware' that DS Jones had another Christian name other than 'Stan' (Brian). What this tells us, is that by the 7th August 1985, cops 'already' had possession of one silencer (SBJ/1) linked to the police investigation. This was the silencer which 'Stan' Jones took from the scene along with the other three 'SBJ' exhibits. Then by 12th August 1985, cops received the first of two different identical looking silencers from Peter Eaton (his wife, Ann would eventually hand over the second of the two silencers, to DC Oakey, on the 11th September 1985). What becomes clear to me, is that the silencer given to Jones by Peter Eaton on the evening of 12th August 1985, was the one that 'Ron' Cook had taken to the lab' on the following day. This brings me onto the whereabouts of the silencer (SBJ/1) which 'Stan' Jones had seized from the scene on the first morning of the investigation? I am confident that 'this' particular silencer, (SBJ/1) found its way onto DCI 'Taff' Jones desk, at Witham police station. Much later, when the confusion regarding the finder of the silencer which 'Ron' Cook had marked up, 'SJ/1' at the lab' came to light, to save further confusion, 'that' silencer (SJ/1) was reallocated exhibit reference, 'DB/1', and sent back to the lab' on the 30th August 1985...
« Last Edit: June 27, 2016, 10:23:AM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline sami

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Re: What makes Bamber innocent?
« Reply #2999 on: June 27, 2016, 09:50:AM »
When in August 1992 the Police Complaints Authority dismissed Jeremy's concerns over the way the original investigation was handled by Essex Constabulary, he joined five other inmates in Franklin, Durham in wrecking their cells and pasting the words “FREE BAMBER HE IS INNOCENT” in excrement on the walls.

It seems that the 'independent' Police Complaints Authority, 7 years later, thought the police handled the investigation correctly
so he was using the dirty tactics of the ira.i hope the screws gave them a good hiding and than straight down the BLOCK ;) ;D
« Last Edit: June 27, 2016, 10:02:AM by sami »