What makes Bamber innocent?

[Caroline]

Ive explained the GRS about 20 times now. if its not going to sink in why repeat myself

As for my last post you simply have no answer then I take it?

Read my post again - I WASN'T TALKING ABOUT GSR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You said the Police had results that there were prints on the bullet cases - where are their results - NOT YOURS!

[David1819]

Read my post again - I WASN'T TALKING ABOUT GSR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You said the Police had results that there were prints on the bullet cases - where are their results - NOT YOURS!

[Caroline]

Positive result doesn't mean 'identifiable'. There were FP on the rifle that could not be identified. Smudged prints can be classified as a positive result, but they can't be identified as belonging to a particular person. Jeremy said he filled the magazine, they are more likely to be his prints but would mean nothing as he already said he filled it - even if they could be identified.

[Caroline]

The technology didn't exist back in 1985 to extract latent fingerprints from spent casings. This article was written in 2012!

https://wrongfulconvictionsblog.org/2012/03/23/fingerprints-from-shell-casings/

" Ask any latent print examiner about imaging fingerprints from expended shell casings, and they will tell you it’s most likely futile.  Any latent prints that have been deposited on cartridges before, or during, loading into the firearm are “erased” by the firing temperatures experienced by the shell casing.  Studies with thermal imaging cameras have shown that the exterior of a brass 9mm cartridge casing will reach approximately 145° F.  This is apparently enough to break down or vaporize the skin oils of which a fingerprint is comprised."

However, it is is now possible to extract finger prints from spent casings (even old ones), so IF the casings still exist, perhaps Jeremy's legal team or the CT can look into have them tested.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2008/jun/03/fingerprints.bullets

[David1819]

The technology didn't exist back in 1985 to extract latent fingerprints from spent casings. This article was written in 2012!

https://wrongfulconvictionsblog.org/2012/03/23/fingerprints-from-shell-casings/

" Ask any latent print examiner about imaging fingerprints from expended shell casings, and they will tell you it’s most likely futile.  Any latent prints that have been deposited on cartridges before, or during, loading into the firearm are “erased” by the firing temperatures experienced by the shell casing.  Studies with thermal imaging cameras have shown that the exterior of a brass 9mm cartridge casing will reach approximately 145° F.  This is apparently enough to break down or vaporize the skin oils of which a fingerprint is comprised."

However, it is is now possible to extract finger prints from spent casings (even old ones), so IF the casings still exist, perhaps Jeremy's legal team or the CT can look into have them tested.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2008/jun/03/fingerprints.bullets

Yes it did exist. They just used conventional methods just not the specialist equipment invented in the article you mentioned. That article just says its hard not impossible

I can find studies going back to 1968.

Fingerprints on Cartridges" JV Vandiver, Identification News, June 1976.

Latent fingerprints on cartridges and expended cartridge casings. 1976.

The effects of time and detonation on latent fingerprints from cartridges and cartridge castings were explored. Time alone did not appear to seriously degrade latent fingerprint quality over the three-week period of experimental trials. The greatest effect of detonation seemed to stem from hot gaseous blowback on the external surface of the cartridge casings. Nickel-plated casings, because of their greater chemical resistance and more polished surface, were found less satisfactory as a substrate for latent impressions than brass casings.

Eley rimfire ammunition happens to be brass.

Crim. Police Rev., 217, 106, Theys et al 1968
techniques for detecting both eccrine and sebaceous latent prints
deposited on cartridge cases prior to firing the cartridges in the appropriate
firearm. Some identifiable prints could be developed on brass cases, but
generally, these were difficult surfaces


The Shell casings in this case no longer exist if I remember Holly correctly 

[Caroline]

Yes it did exist. They just used conventional methods just not the specialist equipment invented in the article you mentioned. That article just says its hard not impossible

I can find studies going back to 1968.

Fingerprints on Cartridges" JV Vandiver, Identification News, June 1976.

Latent fingerprints on cartridges and expended cartridge casings. 1976.

The effects of time and detonation on latent fingerprints from cartridges and cartridge castings were explored. Time alone did not appear to seriously degrade latent fingerprint quality over the three-week period of experimental trials. The greatest effect of detonation seemed to stem from hot gaseous blowback on the external surface of the cartridge casings. Nickel-plated casings, because of their greater chemical resistance and more polished surface, were found less satisfactory as a substrate for latent impressions than brass casings.

Eley rimfire ammunition happens to be brass.

Crim. Police Rev., 217, 106, Theys et al 1968
techniques for detecting both eccrine and sebaceous latent prints
deposited on cartridge cases prior to firing the cartridges in the appropriate
firearm. Some identifiable prints could be developed on brass cases, but
generally, these were difficult surfaces


The Shell casings in this case no longer exist if I remember Holly correctly 

It doesn't matter if you can find 'studies' you have no evidence that they found any identifiable prints on any casings and the likelihood of  of then having done so, it next to zero. If they don't exist then it would prove nothing either way - but Jeremy admits to handling at least 10 or 11 and most likely touched more.

[David1819]

It doesn't matter if you can find 'studies' you have no evidence that they found any identifiable prints on any casings and the likelihood of  of then having done so, it next to zero. If they don't exist then it would prove nothing either way - but Jeremy admits to handling at least 10 or 11 and most likely touched more.

First off we have the form of identified positive results for fingerprints from Essex police

Then we have Michael turner QC appeal notes 2002
Robert Boutflour claimed Jeremy had been trying to get Sheila to load the rifle in front of June and Pamela, but Pamela made no such reference of the incident in her statements. Jeremy denied ever doing this. It is now known  fingerprints were found on the bullet cases of the cartridges, but this was not disclosed. Whose fingerprints were these? One can only postulate that the police told Robert Boutflour the fingerprints were Sheila’s, and in an attempt to explain it, he made a statement of how Sheila’s fingerprints came to be on the bullet cases.

Then we have police notes about discussions of having the casings tested for prints.

[mike tesko]

There are over a hundred pieces of forensic evidence that shows it wasn't Sheila.

You know this. So I don't know why you say things that are wrong.

There is no reliable scientific evidence which proves that Sheila wasn't the killer. You had better start listing it all, so that I can analyse it here on the open forum...

[mike tesko]

There is a mountain of forensic and circumstantial evidence. Probably more than in 99% of other cases. Excluding criminals caught red handed or who pleaded guilty.

You forgot to mention that the mountain of forensic and circumstantial evidence, is in the main 'imaginary'...

[mike tesko]

Lets get the facts right, many of you do not realize or appreciate the fact that the ballistic expert, Malcolm Fletcher, received 25 cartridge cases from 'Ron' Cook which had been fingerprinted, and of which 14 of them contained 'partial fingerprints' belonging to 'Sheila Caffell' upon them. These 14 cartridge cases are 'still being retained' at 'Huntingdon Lab', according to ballistic expert, 'RENSHAW' who attended tests that were carried out at Birdwell armoury in 2004. They were given an exhibit reference of 'MDF/100', and are still retained there to this day...

Mention of these 14 bullet cases (MDF/100) is made by 'RENSHAW' in one of his reports...

The existence of these 'missing' 14 cartridge cases with partial fingerprints of Sheila upon them, raises concern about the '14 corresponding cartridge cases' which were used in a substitution process of the batch of crime scene ammunition whilst at the lab'...

'Ron' Cook fingerprinted all the cartridge cases by oblique light test on the 15th August, 1985, and by 'superglue treatment' on the 23rd August 1985. What this tells us, is that the original batch of 25 bullet cases were 'all' tarnished and 'coated in white' residue from the superglue testing (23rd August, 1985) before 'Ron' Cook sent them all off to Malcolm Fletcher at the lab' (30th August, 1985). Yet we find that many of the current batch do not have any 'white residue' anywhere upon their surfaces. These are the cartridge cases which were obtained during 'unofficial' test firing of the rifle with control ammunition, resulting in 'unblemished cartridges' (no white residue) becoming introduced into the batch of crime scene ammunition at the lab' under the ballistic experts control - he being responsible for substituting 14 of the original 25 casings (all of which were tarnished and coated with 'white residue' and which  contained part fingerprints of Sheila Caffell), these 14 cartridge cases (MDF/100) were kept in storage separately at the lab, and did not form part of the ballistic evidence relied upon in this prosecution...


You can check for a presence of 'white residue' on all of the 25 revised batch of crime scene cartridge cases, for yourselves...

[mike tesko]

The technology didn't exist back in 1985 to extract latent fingerprints from spent casings. This article was written in 2012!

https://wrongfulconvictionsblog.org/2012/03/23/fingerprints-from-shell-casings/

" Ask any latent print examiner about imaging fingerprints from expended shell casings, and they will tell you it’s most likely futile.  Any latent prints that have been deposited on cartridges before, or during, loading into the firearm are “erased” by the firing temperatures experienced by the shell casing.  Studies with thermal imaging cameras have shown that the exterior of a brass 9mm cartridge casing will reach approximately 145° F.  This is apparently enough to break down or vaporize the skin oils of which a fingerprint is comprised."

However, it is is now possible to extract finger prints from spent casings (even old ones), so IF the casings still exist, perhaps Jeremy's legal team or the CT can look into have them tested.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2008/jun/03/fingerprints.bullets

Fingerprints obtained during 'superglue treatment' on the 14 'positive' findings, were 'photographed', which was a 'standard procedure' back in August, 1985. Nothing more needs to be considered...

[mike tesko]

I shall be reposting the 25 'GENERAL EXAMINATION RECORDS', which pertain to the 25 cartridge cases, some (in one group) with 'white residue' deposited on them, others (in another group), without any 'white residue' upon them. The point I am advancing, is that those cartridge casings with no 'white residue' upon them, were not the 'actual' cartridges recovered from the scene, but were, and are cartridge cases obtained as a result of cops and ballistics expert (Malcolm Fletcher) performing 'unreported' test firing of the anshuzt rifle, with control ammunition, prior to the 20th September 1985 (the date Malcolm Fletcher claims he first performed the official 'test firing'). Unfortunately, for Fletcher, his evidence is 'undone' because he himself confirmed matches of cartridge cases, on dates which included, 12th, 13th, 18th and 19th September, 1985...

Why 'did' the ballistic expert, 'Fletcher' lie deliberately?

[mike tesko]

I shall be reposting the 25 'GENERAL EXAMINATION RECORDS', which pertain to the 25 cartridge cases, some (in one group) with 'white residue' deposited on them, others (in another group), without any 'white residue' upon them. The point I am advancing, is that those cartridge casings with no 'white residue' upon them, were not the 'actual' cartridges recovered from the scene, but were, and are cartridge cases obtained as a result of cops and ballistics expert (Malcolm Fletcher) performing 'unreported' test firing of the anshuzt rifle, with control ammunition, prior to the 20th September 1985 (the date Malcolm Fletcher claims he first performed the official 'test firing'). Unfortunately, for Fletcher, his evidence is 'undone' because he himself confirmed matches of cartridge cases, on dates which included, 12th, 13th, 18th and 19th September, 1985...

Why 'did' the ballistic expert, 'Fletcher' lie deliberately?

Was there really '25 cartridge cases', associated to the 'Anshuzt rifle'?

[mike tesko]

We will 'test' the evidence...

[mike tesko]

Lets start with the ballistic experts claim, that 'he had no idea' when the anshuzt rifle had 'last been fired', prior to the date (20th September, 1985) he allegedly performed the 'official test fire' of the same with 'control ammunition'?