What makes Bamber innocent?

[sami]

So, the truth is laid threadbare, no bullet lead would have got onto the hands of anyone handling or loading bullets into the ammunition magazine, because of the manufacturers 'WAX' coating on the ammunition...

would she not have the parafin wax on her hands having loaded 15 odd bullets

[mike tesko]

mike can you explain what petroleuim combustion residue is.the bullets were coated with parafin wax

I am not a chemist, but I think that what Dr Lloyd is referring to, is the change in the makeup of the 'petroleum ether' that gets applied to the swabs to moisten the swabs prior to their use. Somebody correct me if I am wrong, but I think his reference to 'petroleum combustion residue' is the amount of the lead element present on the swabs once the swabs have been moistened, as described, and the rate with which the 'petroleum ether' evaporates. I think it is the quantity of the lead element on the swabs, at different stages starting with the moistening exercise which will produce high levels of lead element on the swab, that with the passing of time, the amount of lead element reduces. I think that is what is being talked about. In the hand swabs taken from Sheila on the 7th August 1985, there was a significant delay before Elliott examined them 29th October, 1985, as opposed to the relatively short period between the taking of the testees' hand swabs, and their examination...

I think what Dr Lloyd was saying was that the level of lead element in the results obtained from examination of Sheila's swabs were lower than the levels of the testees' due to the evaporation effect of the 'petroleum ether'. A delay of around 84 days in Sheila's case, as opposed to a few days in the cases of the testees...

[sami]

I am not a chemist, but I think that what Dr Lloyd is referring to, is the change in the makeup of the 'petroleum ether' that gets applied to the swabs to moisten the swabs prior to their use. Somebody correct me if I am wrong, but I think his reference to 'petroleum combustion residue' is the amount of the lead element present on the swabs once the swabs have been moistened, as described, and the rate with which the 'petroleum ether' evaporates. I think it is the quantity of the lead element on the swabs, at different stages starting with the moistening exercise which will produce high levels of lead element on the swab, that with the passing of time, the amount of lead element reduces. I think that is what is being talked about. In the hand swabs taken from Sheila on the 7th August 1985, there was a significant delay before Elliott examined them 29th October, 1985, as opposed to the relatively short period between the taking of the testees' hand swabs, and their examination...

I think what Dr Lloyd was saying was that the level of lead element in the results obtained from examination of Sheila's swabs were lower than the levels of the testees' due to the evaporation effect of the 'petroleum ether'. A delay of around 84 days in Sheila's case, as opposed to a few days in the cases of the testees...

thank you ,mike

[David1819]

[/quote]

that's the 5th time you have used that false claim. Try another answer

[sami]

[/quote]the lab tests showed she would have had something on her hands ,call it lead. wax,oil,or gsr.i think john's right.the lights are on but theres no one home

[lookout]

Would not Jeremy have daubed Sheila's hands/nightdress with residue or whatever to make it appear that she'd" made full use of the rifle ?" If he'd wanted to blame her ?
 He could have mustered up all kinds of clues pointing to the family's involvement,or even signs of a burglary which would have been simple to do,especially when there were various temporary workers during harvest-time to blame,but--------------he didn't because he wasn't involved.

He's being kept locked up to save the embarrassment of EP's duff investigation. Nothing to do with him " being a danger to the public ",or the relatives " fear " of him being released,but fear of him opening up to the REAL truth of the crime.Where he is is nothing but a convenience for everyone.
I've heard of a marriage of convenience,but never a conviction-------until now !!   

[sami]

Would not Jeremy have daubed Sheila's hands/nightdress with residue or whatever to make it appear that she'd" made full use of the rifle ?" If he'd wanted to blame her ?
 He could have mustered up all kinds of clues pointing to the family's involvement,or even signs of a burglary which would have been simple to do,especially when there were various temporary workers during harvest-time to blame,but--------------he didn't because he wasn't involved.

He's being kept locked up to save the embarrassment of EP's duff investigation. Nothing to do with him " being a danger to the public ",or the relatives " fear " of him being released,but fear of him opening up to the REAL truth of the crime.Where he is is nothing but a convenience for everyone.
I've heard of a marriage of convenience,but never a conviction-------until now !!

he wasnt that clever.plus we are looking at it with modern day forensics in mind .people were not aware of such stuff in those days

[lookout]

he wasnt that clever.plus we are looking at it with modern day forensics in mind .people were not aware of such stuff in those days

Even with advanced technology,etc,there's still room for improvement of the human kind.

[sami]

Even with advanced technology,etc,there's still room for improvement of the human kind.

totally agree

[sami]

the trouble i have with this case is why the police would turn 4 murders and a suicide in to 5 murders and than have the long job of proving it to a jury, and get egg on their faces if jb is found not guilty ,why would they do that.as for the family dictating to the police ,they would have been told where to go,like taff jones told them.no i think the police have got it right.imo

[mike tesko]

the trouble i have with this case is why the police would turn 4 murders and a suicide in to 5 murders and than have the long job of proving it to a jury, and get egg on their faces if jb is found not guilty ,why would they do that.as for the family dictating to the police ,they would have been told where to go,like taff jones told them.no i think the police have got it right.imo

You perhaps overlook the 'influence' of a 'close friend' and 'Associate' known to the family who was providing them with too much 'inside information' about 'things' that happened 'once cops had got into the farmhouse'...

That person being, PC Robert Carr (RC)...

[mike tesko]

PC Carr was the son of the manager of Osea Road Camp Site, that was owned 50/50 by June Bamber  and her sister, Pamela Boutflour...

[mike tesko]

PC Carr was the son of the manager of Osea Road Camp Site, that was owned 50/50 by June Bamber  and her sister, Pamela Boutflour...

He attended the farmhouse and took two paint samples (RC/1 and RC/2) which he gave to 'Ron' Cook at the scene that day, who in turn handed these to DS Davidson whilst all present were still at the scene on the 8th August 1985.These two paint samples were taken by PC Robert Carr, because red coloured paint had been found ingrained onto the end of one of the shotgun barrels which had a rubber kitchen glove over the end of its wooden stock. During the first week of the original investigation (SC/688/85) PC Robert Carr was the source via which the relatives received sensitive information about the tragedy. This was why the relatives appeared to always be on the front foot, one step ahead of Essex police, at all times. There are strong grounds for believing that relatives quickly got to know about all the mistakes the cops who had entered the farmhouse had made, and afterwards, in the sense that they took certain measures which were 'puzzling' to any onlooker without the benefit of inside information. For example, take the identity of the policeman who told Annie Eaton that Sheila's and Junes bodies were on top of the bed when found with the rifle laid between them, and a bible on top of Sheila's chest. 'Annie' was told by DC Clarke and DS Jones at first, but this information was confirmed to her and the other relatives later on by PC Robert Carr ( the close friend of the family), and 'that' is why she makes out that she can't remember which cop told her that Sheila and June were found on the bed...

[mike tesko]

In possession of 'that' information, the relatives eventually gained the upper hand over Essex police, and were able to manipulate them to do what they wanted otherwise the relatives themselves would 'spill the beans'...

[mike tesko]

In possession of 'that' information, the relatives eventually gained the upper hand over Essex police, and were able to manipulate them to do what they wanted otherwise the relatives themselves would 'spill the beans'...

The 'hold' which the relatives gained over the investigating officers, was a similar one which professional informants eventually have over the cops they have 'grassed' to, or to whom they give information to in return for cash and favours. The power these informants have is that at any time they can come forward and effectively help to get many convictions quashed simply by saying that 'cops put me up to this, they told me to help them put this person away, or that person away. I personally know the identities of several paid police informants who acted in this capacity against me for the No.3 Regional Crime Squad, and South Yorkshire police when I was considered to be a target Criminal (Gordon Stanton, Graham Thompson, Harold Hawksworth, and Godfrey Lewis, to name but a few). I even have a transcript of when the cops interviewed Thompson whilst he was in prison, making a deal to get himself released on bail at the expense of being encouraged to 'tell cops lies about me'...

Gordon Stanton's wife, 'Debbie', even made covert taped recordings of her husband admitting that he was working for the No.3 RCS, to help convict me, and that they had paid him two payments already, one of £15,000 and the other of £10,000....

In a similar sort of a way, the relatives had the 'bargaining power' of PC Robert Carr, he was their 'informant'...