What makes Bamber innocent?

[Jane]

No-------------EP had most of it,hidden/undisclosed.

Well, you can go on using that one till the cows come home. It several purposes. If they had it but have since destroyed it. If they've never had it because it was never there to have OR if they've handed over, as Jeremy has said, everything they may have had.

[Steve_uk]

Caroline, I can't help but feel that everything which affected Sheila re her adoption must also have affected Jeremy. We know very well that internalized feelings of anger and resentment, if not allowed to be expressed WILL at some point find their own way out in devastating ways. Sheila seems to have been capable of releasing hers in places she felt safe, ie Colin. I believe Jeremy kept his bottled. They'd both have had to live with the physical feelings of abandonment because it goes hand in hand with being adopted.

Jane I think the frustration was there smouldering under the surface, when he snapped the stalks on his mother's tulips and drove round in circles on the bicycle. Neither sibling could find the words to sum up their predicament faced with the unshakeable union of their parents. It's ironic that Sheila vented her frustrations at Colin and I wonder if Jeremy ever knew, because of course the tension which he felt came out to his partner, namely musings to Julie about wanting to do away with his family.

[maggie]

Caroline, I can't help but feel that everything which affected Sheila re her adoption must also have affected Jeremy. We know very well that internalized feelings of anger and resentment, if not allowed to be expressed WILL at some point find their own way out in devastating ways. Sheila seems to have been capable of releasing hers in places she felt safe, ie Colin. I believe Jeremy kept his bottled. They'd both have had to live with the physical feelings of abandonment because it goes hand in hand with being adopted.

Hi Jane, I agree with you that all children who are removed from their mother for whatever reason before they are aged 2 (I think) suffer from abandonment issues according to the bible about baby adoption The Primal Wound.  E

Even babies who are premature and placed in an incubator suffer from feelings of loss and rejection which they don't consciously recognise but which cause them feelings of emptiness and loneliness.  Of course Jeremy would have suffered at least as badly as Sheila but being a boy would have made it even harder for him. 

I am sure he was brought up being told 'boy's don't cry' and to keep a 'stiff upper lip'.  A terrible legacy for all little boys but particularly one like Jeremy who must have had really difficult feelings of loss and sadness and longing for love from something he couldn't remember.

I might add I remember reading in The Primal Wound that children who have such abandonment feelings and do not bond deeply with their replacement mother will look for replacement objects to bond with instead.  It is not uncommon for such children to grow up loving money to fill in the empty void inside them.

[Jane]

Jane I think the frustration was there smouldering under the surface, when he snapped the stalks on his mother's tulips and drove round in circles on the bicycle. Neither sibling could find the words to sum up their predicament faced with the unshakeable union of their parents. It's ironic that Sheila vented her frustrations at Colin and I wonder if Jeremy ever knew, because of course the tension which he felt came out to his partner, namely musings to Julie about wanting to do away with his family.

I find it interesting that Jeremy has maintained that the fact of his adoption never troubled him but he tried to make contact with his biological parents after he was convicted. It's an interesting dichotomy. Sheila, on the other hand, went for it, quite openly. I wonder how much this would have affected Jeremy.

[Steve_uk]

I find it interesting that Jeremy has maintained that the fact of his adoption never troubled him but he tried to make contact with his biological parents after he was convicted. It's an interesting dichotomy. Sheila, on the other hand, went for it, quite openly. I wonder how much this would have affected Jeremy.

I think Jeremy saw the lie of the land and as long as he was being subsidized was quite content with the status quo for a time. Julie in her statement then says that the talk about killing his parents resumed after a lull, which may have been when Nevill hinted about payback time for the loan and June refused to write out more personal cheques.

[maggie]

I find it interesting that Jeremy has maintained that the fact of his adoption never troubled him but he tried to make contact with his biological parents after he was convicted. It's an interesting dichotomy. Sheila, on the other hand, went for it, quite openly. I wonder how much this would have affected Jeremy.

I'm with you there Jane, I was thinking that myself.  I think the fact they didn't get the real bonding love as babies and it seems they were never put first in their parents life as a constant, the longing  must have been hard to bear and no doubt it hardened to anger in both of them but Sheila being a female didn't have the strictures placed on her that a middle class, public school boy did.

[Jane]

Hi Jane, I agree with you that all children who are removed from their mother for whatever reason before they are aged 2 (I think) suffer from abandonment issues according to the bible about baby adoption The Primal Wound.  E

Even babies who are premature and placed in an incubator suffer from feelings of loss and rejection which they don't consciously recognise but which cause them feelings of emptiness and loneliness.  Of course Jeremy would have suffered at least as badly as Sheila but being a boy would have made it even harder for him. 

I am sure he was brought up being told 'boy's don't cry' and to keep a 'stiff upper lip'.  A terrible legacy for all little boys but particularly one like Jeremy who must have had really difficult feelings of loss and sadness and longing for love from something he couldn't remember.

I might add I remember reading in The Primal Wound that children who have such abandonment feelings and do not bond deeply with their replacement mother will look for replacement objects to bond with instead.  It is not uncommon for such children to grow up loving money to fill in the empty void inside them.

And Maggie, isn't it interesting that whilst Sheila has it heaped on her every which way -albeit for diverse reasons- Jeremy MUST have perceived it as being so and felt he had to work for every penny he earned.

[Steve_uk]

I'm with you there Jane, I was thinking that myself.  I think the fact they didn't get the real bonding love as babies and it seems they were never put first in their parents life as a constant, the longing  must have been hard to bear and no doubt it hardened to anger in both of them but Sheila being a female didn't have the strictures placed on her that a middle class, public school boy.

But there was June telling her to "always think of God", which must have been difficult for an individual who was emerging as a stunning young woman, albeit one who had very little confidence, hence her delight in being told by others she was pretty.

[maggie]

But there was June telling her to "always think of God", which must have been difficult for an individual who was emerging as a stunning young woman, albeit one who had very little confidence, hence her delight in being told by others she was pretty.

I agree Steve but that particular teaching for little boys not to show their feelings leaves many men screwed up and unable to express themselves, whereas little girls do tend to express themselves whether they are encouraged to or not.    Jeremy probably simply had no outlet for his emotions and the feelings he was unloveable and worthless hence him wafting his money around and playing the big I am for attention. 
I find it very sad.
You should read the Primal Wound Steve, it's very interesting.

[Jane]

But there was June telling her to "always think of God", which must have been difficult for an individual who was emerging as a stunning young woman, albeit one who had very little confidence, hence her delight in being told by others she was pretty.

Steve, I truly believe it had less to do with focussing on God than an attempt to suppress Sheila's blossoming sexuality which she clearly used to validate her low sense of self worth. I guess the more worthless she felt, the more she sought affection in the form of sex.

[maggie]

Steve, I truly believe it had less to do with focussing on God than an attempt to suppress Sheila's blossoming sexuality which she clearly used to validate her low sense of self worth. I guess the more worthless she felt, the more she sought affection in the form of sex.

Absolutely Jane and in the same way Jeremy saw money as a way to validate his low sense of self worth.

[Jane]

Absolutely Jane and in the same way Jeremy saw money as a way to validate his low sense of self worth.

And it may just be possible that after Sheila got to meet Christine, Jeremy's sense of self worth went South and he thought that acquiring the family fortune would make it better.

[Caroline]

And it may just be possible that after Sheila got to meet Christine, Jeremy's sense of self worth went South and he thought that acquiring the family fortune would make it better.

Good point, I can't imagine he would have been happy about Sheila's new relationship with her mother. More resentment!

[mike tesko]

Didn't Jeremy make some reference to the fingerprint powder?

Yes, he did, he pointed out that the farmhouse was not fingerprinted until September 1985, the inference to be drawn, therefore, was that if Basil John Cock was present when the silencer was found, then the silencer in question (DRB/1) could not have been found in August 1985, because Basil John Cock, did not go to the farmhouse until September 1985, after cops had fingerprinted the farmhouse...

[maggie]

Good point, I can't imagine he would have been happy about Sheila's new relationship with her mother. More resentment!

Personally I don't believe Jeremy was a psychopath, I used to think he would have to be to carry out the crime but after reading the Primal Wound and understanding on a deeper level the tragedy that occurs when a baby is removed from the mother who is still part of the baby's very being both mentally and physically I have come closer to being able to understand the depth of pain and bewilderment which can develop.  It is believed if the replacement mother is able to bond deeply with the baby which is done by eye contact and facial expression the child will grow up feeling secure but I am afraid that this probably didn't happen to either baby with June.  She was apparently a woman who struggled to show her feelings so it was unlikely her babies would be able to read the loving emotional map on her face.
With no secure bonding and feelings of safety the child can develop in a vacuum where low self worth and feelings of loss and rejection, resentment and replacement love of money and possesions can flourish.