What makes Bamber innocent?

[JackiePreece]

To be honest, the impression I got when I first got to know J was that he was a bit slow intellectually. If he'd have been 'that' clever, he would have pushed the 'sighting of the figure' at the upstairs bedroom window, all the way right from the off, as being evidence that someone was still alive inside the farmhouse after cops and J arrived just before 4am. I don't buy into the argument that J couldn't rely on 'that' sighting otherwise it would supposedly play right into the prosecutions hands, because Julie Mugford told the cops and court that J had hired a hitman and paid that person £2000 to do it - £400 per victim. I mean, who is going to kill five people for £400 per life? In any event, by the time the case came to court at Chelmsford Crown court in October, 1986, it was 'no longer' the prosecutions case that J had hired anybody at all to kill anybody. They were claiming that he acted alone, that he got into and out of the farmhouse via an insecure ground floor window. That he fought with his father in the kitchen, and that he had used a silencer fitted to the gun, removed it after killing his sister, and that he had 'hidden it' inside a box in the cupboard tucked away in 'the corner of the den'. So, if J had been as sharp as cops were making him out to be, he would have sought to rely on the sighting of the figure that there had been at least one adult alive in the upstairs bedrooms. He could have claimed it was his dad, but he didn't. He could have claimed it was his mum, or his sister, but he didn't. And the reason he didn't was because he wasn't sure who the figure had been...

Lol that'll be a first 

Mike your boring posts that make no sense to man or beast have bored/frightened everyone off in case you haven't noticed!

Before you tell me to F**k off I'm off anyway to ride one of my two horses! 

[John]

Lol that'll be a first 

Mike your boring posts that make no sense to man or beast have bored/frightened everyone off in case you haven't noticed!

Before you tell me to F**k off I'm off anyway to ride one of my two horses!

    go careful now!

Mike's posts boring?  Neigh

[Reader]

That was the time 'information' received back in the communications room, that J was 'present' at the scene with cops...

That means little unless it can be shown that the police at the scene reported Jeremy's arrival promptly. The logs attributed to Pc West and Malcolm Bonnett don't seem to mention 03:52 at all. Are you referring to a contemporaneous police log or one that was made considerably later?

[JackiePreece]

   go careful now!

Mike's posts boring?  Neigh

Yikes I love flying by the seat of my saddle!

Neigh indeed 

[Neil]

Lol that'll be a first 

Mike your boring posts that make no sense to man or beast have bored/frightened everyone off in case you haven't noticed!

Before you tell me to F**k off I'm off anyway to ride one of my two horses!

[JackiePreece]

 

[mike tesko]

I believe a message was passed by one of the three occupants of CA07 when Jeremy arrived at the scene, since only two of the three cops in that patrol car got out of the car to talk to Jeremy according to the available evidence. The two cops who got out of the patrol car at 'that' time, were PC Myall, and PS Bews, who both spoke to Jeremy outside of thier oqn  car, and Jeremy's car...

[mike tesko]

I believe a message was passed by one of the three occupants of CA07 when Jeremy arrived at the scene, since only two of the three cops in that patrol car got out of the car to talk to Jeremy according to the available evidence. The two cops who got out of the patrol car at 'that' time, were PC Myall, and PS Bews, who both spoke to Jeremy outside of thier oqn  car, and Jeremy's car...

In any event, since the occupants of CA07 confirmed their arrival at the scene over the police radio as having occurred at 3.48am, and that two of those three cops inside that police vehicle (CA07) state that Jeremy arrived in pages lane three or four minutes behind them, it was 'estimated' that J arrived there at 3.52. This is the most accurate estimation in which to pin the arrival of J to the scene that anybody can arrive at...

[Adam]

Lol that'll be a first 

Mike your boring posts that make no sense to man or beast have bored/frightened everyone off in case you haven't noticed!

Before you tell me to F**k off I'm off anyway to ride one of my two horses!

'Boring' is not a word that springs to mind when reading one of Mike's posts.

'Eyebrow raising' are two words that spring to mind.

[mike tesko]

J believed cops must have shot his family. That was his first impression after cops told him that everybody in the house were dead from gun shot wounds. He complained to that effect when he spoke to PS Saxby after being told the news. J also spoke about this possibility to a local garage owner. If from an early stage, the contents of the police message logs had been disclosed causing a massive contradiction as to the distribution of bodies downstairs and upstairs, I have no doubt that during the October 1986 trial, that it would have been part of the defence case, that cops had shot and killed at least one of the five victims. A fact strengthened by the sighting of the figure in the upstairs bedroom, alive and with mobility. No 'shots' having been overheard to have emitted from inside the farmhouse after 'that' sighting. There was the ' mystery' surrounding how the 'open telephone line', had become inexplicably 'engaged', and details of a recorded police message, timed at 5.25am, that morning which stated that 'firearm officers' were engaged in 'a conversation' with 'a person' from 'inside the farm'. This could 'not' have been a reference to 'J', because by that stage he was no longer at the scene. He had left to go with a uniformed police officer to a local public telephone kiosk in order to make a telephone call to his then girlfriend, Julie Mugford...

[John]

'Boring' is not a word that springs to mind when reading one of Mike's posts.

'Eyebrow raising' are two words that spring to mind.

Repetitive?

[John]

J believed cops must have shot his family. That was his first impression after cops told him that everybody in the house were dead from gun shot wounds. He complained to that effect when he spoke to PS Saxby after being told the news. J also spoke about this possibility to a local garage owner. If from an early stage, the contents of the police message logs had been disclosed causing a massive contradiction as to the distribution of bodies downstairs and upstairs, I have no doubt that during the October 1986 trial, that it would have been part of the defence case, that cops had shot and killed at least one of the five victims. A fact strengthened by the sighting of the figure in the upstairs bedroom, alive and with mobility. No 'shots' having been overheard to have emitted from inside the farmhouse after 'that' sighting. There was the ' mystery' surrounding how the 'open telephone line', had become inexplicably 'engaged', and details of a recorded police message, timed at 5.25am, that morning which stated that 'firearm officers' were engaged in 'a conversation' with 'a person' from 'inside the farm'. This could 'not' have been a reference to 'J', because by that stage he was no longer at the scene. He had left to go with a uniformed police officer to a local public telephone kiosk in order to make a telephone call to his then girlfriend, Julie Mugford...

What a load of twaddle, he could say that wouldn't he. 

Had the police fired any shots everyone there would have known about it not to mention the immediate radio messages including the usual...

SHOTS FIRED !!! SHOTS FIRED !!!

[Adam]

J believed cops must have shot his family. That was his first impression after cops told him that everybody in the house were dead from gun shot wounds. He complained to that effect when he spoke to PS Saxby after being told the news. J also spoke about this possibility to a local garage owner. If from an early stage, the contents of the police message logs had been disclosed causing a massive contradiction as to the distribution of bodies downstairs and upstairs, I have no doubt that during the October 1986 trial, that it would have been part of the defence case, that cops had shot and killed at least one of the five victims. A fact strengthened by the sighting of the figure in the upstairs bedroom, alive and with mobility. No 'shots' having been overheard to have emitted from inside the farmhouse after 'that' sighting. There was the ' mystery' surrounding how the 'open telephone line', had become inexplicably 'engaged', and details of a recorded police message, timed at 5.25am, that morning which stated that 'firearm officers' were engaged in 'a conversation' with 'a person' from 'inside the farm'. This could 'not' have been a reference to 'J', because by that stage he was no longer at the scene. He had left to go with a uniformed police officer to a local public telephone kiosk in order to make a telephone call to his then girlfriend, Julie Mugford...

What did Bamber tell you about his 3am and 6am phone calls to Julie Mike ?

[mike tesko]

I don't believe that the unsubstantiated claim made by Julie Mugford, that J had told her that he had hired a hitman to kill his family for a £2000 fee, prevented J and his legal team from taking 'that' approach during the trial. I don't believe J had paid anyone to kill his family at all. The idea of introducing the hitman theory came about because 'Stan' Jones told Mugford that cops had seen an unidentified male inside the farmhouse soon after their arrival there. Jones reiterated to Mugford that cops knew that the person who was seen in the bedroom had not been one of the five victims, because about an hour later the same cops saw the man in question outside the farmhouse in the grounds walking away from the farmhouse. Armed with this information, and answers given to her by J during the immediate aftermath of the tragedy, Mugford knew about the sighting of the figure in the bedroom, by two of the cops and J himself, because J had told her on a couple of occasions about the person they had seen moving around in the bedroom. Mugford knew that whoever that person was, it could not have been J himself because J was outside in the grounds with the cops when all three of them had been observing this person via the bedroom window. 'Stan' had gone out of his way to persuade Mugford that by the time of 'that' sighting that all five victims were already dead, so it was 'obvious' that she must know the true identity of that ' unidentified male', person. From that point on, the only person Mugford could think might have been that person, was Mathew MacDonald...

[Adam]

I don't believe that the unsubstantiated claim made by Julie Mugford, that J had told her that he had hired a hitman to kill his family for a £2000 fee, prevented J and his legal team from taking 'that' approach during the trial. I don't believe J had paid anyone to kill his family at all. The idea of introducing the hitman theory came about because 'Stan' Jones told Mugford that cops had seen an unidentified male inside the farmhouse soon after their arrival there. Jones reiterated to Mugford that cops knew that the person who was seen in the bedroom had not been one of the five victims, because about an hour later the same cops saw the man in question outside the farmhouse in the grounds walking away from the farmhouse. Armed with this information, and answers given to her by J during the immediate aftermath of the tragedy, Mugford knew about the sighting of the figure in the bedroom, by two of the cops and J himself, because J had told her on a couple of occasions about the person they had seen moving around in the bedroom. Mugford knew that whoever that person was, it could not have been J himself because J was outside in the grounds with the cops when all three of them had been observing this person via the bedroom window. 'Stan' had gone out of his way to persuade Mugford that by the time of 'that' sighting that all five victims were already dead, so it was 'obvious' that she must know the true identity of that ' unidentified male', person. From that point on, the only person Mugford could think might have been that person, was Mathew MacDonald...

So it was the police who first put the idea into Julies head that it was a hit man. Because Ralph Nevill was in the farm house as Sheila's accomplice and was the hunched man seen leaving WHF.

Whose idea was it to say it was MM ? Whose ever it was it was a poor idea. He had an alibi.