Author Topic: What makes Bamber innocent?  (Read 351197 times)

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Offline Reader

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Re: What makes Bamber innocent?
« Reply #690 on: May 10, 2016, 02:55:PM »
What reason would West have for not telling Jeremy that his father had already called?
He didn't need a reason for not doing something. He had no reason to tell him. How would saying "I've just heard about this from your father. Don't worry, we've already sent police to investigate . . . we're treating it as a domestic." help Jeremy or the police?

Offline mike tesko

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Re: What makes Bamber innocent?
« Reply #691 on: May 10, 2016, 03:05:PM »
I don't recall that you've mentioned that before. What proof do you have that Mr Bonnett testified in person at Jeremy's trial?

Pc West consulted his log of Jeremy's call at trial, but what makes you think the jury were given a copy of that log?

J was provided with a full transcript of all the witness testimonies who gave evidence during his trial. I have a schedule amongst the documents in my possession naming all of them, and I have transcripts of the evidence in chief and their cross examination. I will look to see if Malcolm Bonnet testified, or if his witness statement was accepted by both parties, and tended...

I believe the judge mentioned something about that in his summing up...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Reader

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Re: What makes Bamber innocent?
« Reply #692 on: May 10, 2016, 03:07:PM »
He had to leave the handset off . . . to ensure that the phone rang long enough so that he could nip home and answer it.  Since the phone was then disabled Jerry had to wait for a while before phoning Julie.
Jeremy couldn't possibly have made it home quickly enough to find that his telephone was still ringing. He wouldn't have had to wait to be able to dial out either.

Offline mike tesko

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Re: What makes Bamber innocent?
« Reply #693 on: May 10, 2016, 08:08:PM »
J was provided with a full transcript of all the witness testimonies who gave evidence during his trial. I have a schedule amongst the documents in my possession naming all of them, and I have transcripts of the evidence in chief and their cross examination. I will look to see if Malcolm Bonnet testified, or if his witness statement was accepted by both parties, and tended...

I believe the judge mentioned something about that in his summing up...
l may be able to lay my hands on the aforementioned list by the end of tomorrow. I will photo' the complete list if I do..
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: What makes Bamber innocent?
« Reply #694 on: May 10, 2016, 08:17:PM »
I have previously said that J had no recollection of specific timings for when certain events happened, but that he could remember the sequence of events in which they happened. I questioned him thoroughly to try to nail him down on timings, but to no avail. What I did learn from carrying out these exercises was that during his interview, and by various references to mention of the time a phone call was received, or made, was that 'other people' were responsible for introducing the time events happened. During his interviews 'Stan' Jones tried his darndest to catch J out by trying to confuse him regarding the time he called his girlfriend. Was it before he had contacted police or after, and vice versa? This tactic of altering the time, even transcended into the question of the timing of J's 3.36am call to PC West, for example, was it at 3.26am, instead?
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Jane

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Re: What makes Bamber innocent?
« Reply #695 on: May 11, 2016, 06:52:AM »



Your score for the above is as follows:-

Word smithing 9 out of 10

Factual accuracy 2 out of 10.

Offline mike tesko

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Re: What makes Bamber innocent?
« Reply #696 on: May 11, 2016, 07:28:AM »
My facts are accurate, its just that everybody in the ' Bamber is guilty camp' ignore them because to acknowledge such 'facts' is suicidal to their own arguments and beliefs...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Jane

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Re: What makes Bamber innocent?
« Reply #697 on: May 11, 2016, 08:11:AM »
My facts are accurate, its just that everybody in the ' Bamber is guilty camp' ignore them because to acknowledge such 'facts' is suicidal to their own arguments and beliefs...


You're within your rights to hold that your "facts" are factually accurate. I and others are within our own rights to believe them otherwise.

Offline mike tesko

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Re: What makes Bamber innocent?
« Reply #698 on: May 11, 2016, 08:22:AM »
One thing that I pride myself in, is that I consider 'all the facts'. Take the body count, 'downstairs' and 'upstairs'. I  rely upon the information contained in the police radio message logs (two bodies downstairs, a further three bodies upstairs, between 7.37am and 8.10am), and the witness statement versions bearing ' untimed' references to the body count (one body downstairs, four bodies upstairs) to explain how this transition of 'one female from downstairs in the kitchen' to 'upstairs in the bedroom' occurred. Whereas, those in the 'Bamber is guilty camp', only rely on the latter. The true position is as follows, the contents of the police radio message logs, and information passed between cops at the scene and elsewhere between 7.37am and 8.10am is 100% accurate and reliable. The female downstairs in the kitchen was S, and later when the body count ' altered' and 'changed' from three bodies upstairs until 8.10am, into four bodies upstairs with the inclusion of S's body, from 8.30am (with absolute certainty) onward. Cop witness statements were not entirely accurate or honest, because at the debrief held at Witham police station that evening, senior officers who had knowledge about the migration of S's body from the kitchen to the bedroom, and from the bed in the bedroom, to the bedroom floor, where S eventually ended up and her body photographed there with the anshuzt rifle from the bedroom window now upon her body, instructed all those present to make their notes up, as though the bodies had been found upon entry in the positions they ended up in, as per PC Birds crime scene photographs. This is why in the witness statement versions they claim they found S's body upstairs on the bedroom floor with the rifle on her body, and they deliberately do not include her body ever being present downstairs in the kitchen at all, or how for about a period of 15 minutes (between 8.15am and 8.30am), cops didn't know the  'whereabouts' inside the farmhouse S was, because once senior officers, Harris, Gibbons and Montgomery entered the kitchen at 8.15am after the 'all clear' message had been relayed to the forward control point by the search team inside the farmhouse, 'five dead in total', the named officers, went to survey the reported carnage, only to be met with dads body in the kitchen, not dads and daughters bodies. This was very serious, because now they had three 'unarmed' senior cops, trapped in the kitchen with dads body, and nobody had a clue of the 'whereabouts' of S or if she had armed herself with a loaded weapon in the meantime. I can tell you all now, that these senior officers were terrified, to find themselves trapped there in the kitchen, believing that the daughter might come back into the kitchen at any moment and shoot them all, and none of them had a weapon with which to defend themselves.  It was possible for S to come back into the kitchen through three separate doors (1) - the door leading into the back hallway, on the 'den' side of the main kitchen (this was the door the raid team had entered, and later the three senior officers), this door opened inward on the kitchen side. (2) - the door to the set of spiral stairs (this door opened inward of the main kitchen) that provided access to the upstairs landing, and (3) - the door that led to the front hallway (through which the team of firearm officers had gone through to search other parts of the house, earlier)...

Now, I have already told you all that once the senior officers got into the kitchen (through door 1) and discovered the daughter 'missing', that DCI Harris used the cream coloured telephone in the kitchen to call ACC 'Peter' Simpson directly and give him a 'one to one', regarding how the operation had 'just gone pershaped'. Well, all of that is true, and I have reported these 'facts' accurately. I can also tell you, that upon sudden realisation that these three senior cops had got themselves caught up in what surely must have been a 'terrifying' experience, with Harris on the phone to Simpson, the other two (Montgomery and Gibbons) set about trying to 'block off access to the kitchen at two of the three aforementioned doors, (1) and (2), by jamming a large wooden chair against door (1), and shoving the kitchen table against door (2). In addition, it was they who placed clothing, a towel and seat cushions on the kitchen floor to contain the spread of blood on the kitchen floor that had spilled from dads head wounds, down the side of the coal hod...
« Last Edit: May 11, 2016, 08:23:AM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: What makes Bamber innocent?
« Reply #699 on: May 11, 2016, 08:40:AM »
What did Harris and Simpson talk about over the phone for 15 minutes between 8.15am and 8.30am?
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: What makes Bamber innocent?
« Reply #700 on: May 11, 2016, 08:53:AM »
What did Harris and Simpson talk about over the phone for 15 minutes between 8.15am and 8.30am?

Whatever it was, Gibbons and Montgomery overheard everything Harris was saying, and no doubt they concurred with whatever Harris was saying or describing about the current state of play they all found themselves in. I have it on good authority that part of that conversation involved mention of P'S Adams role as the Commander in the operation', how he had failed to police the raid adequately, and that the daughter had obviously not been killed as was first reported. From 'that' point onward, PI Montgomery took charge and became 'Commander' of the ongoing operation in the hunt to find the whereabouts inside of the farmhouse was the daughter. The mistakes that were made in the first part of the operation between 7.37am, and 8.10am, under Adams leadership, and the fact that within moments of senior officers entering the kitchen at 8.15am, and discovering the daughter no longer present, how Adams post as the Commander' was immediately curtailed, with 'Montgomery' taking over, was a source of bad feeling later on between Adams and Montgomery, that erupted at the debrief held later that same evening...
« Last Edit: May 11, 2016, 08:56:AM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: What makes Bamber innocent?
« Reply #701 on: May 11, 2016, 09:28:AM »
Adams was 'not a happy bunny' by the time the debrief came around later that same evening...

He had 'good reason' to feel annoyed, because at all times during the first part of the operation from 7am onwards to 8.15am when he got 'relieved of his duty', senior officers, at one time or another had been present alongside him at the forward control point, including Harris, Gibbons, DCI Clarke, and of course, PI Montgomery, himself. Adams reasoned, according to my source, that he was being 'singled out' to take the responsibility for the significant 'blunders' outlined, up to the cut off time of 8.15am, which culminated in three 'unarmed' senior officers becoming terrifyingly 'trapped' in the kitchen at peril of being shot at by the daughter, whose whereabouts at 'that' stage, was 'unknown'...

At the debrief Adams tried to exercise power over the senior officers who addressed the group, by pointing out that 'when he viewed S's body upstairs in the bedroom, she was laid in a different position relative to the edge of the bed, and the bedside cabinet, than when it was photographed an hour afterwards by PC Birds in his crime scene photographs. This annoyed the senior officers who were present and that was when they instructed everybody to make up their notes, as though they had first found each of the five victims in the positions shown in PC Birds photographs. This upset Adams, and he made a point of mentioning that it was 'wrong' of the senior officers to be telling all those present how to make up their notes about how the raid had ran smoothly when it obviously hadn't. He said that the photographic images showing the daughter laid by the edge of the bed on the floor in possession of the weapon was not how he remembered it. He stated that he had no recollection of the rifle being present upon the daughters body when he saw it. Senior officers took him to one side and had a word with him privately before the end of the debrief. They told him that dealing with the matter as 'they' were suggesting was the best way forward, for all concerned. It was to 'his benefit', they said, ' in the long run', that everybody was seen to be pulling together in the same direction over where the bodies had been 'discovered' by the officers when they went into that farmhouse. They needed to 'exclude anything and everything regarding reference to the daughters body being downstairs in the kitchen', at any time after cops set foot in the door', they told him. It was for 'his own good',  they said, 'we are doing this, with a view to protecting you in any future disciplinary action being brought against you', they told him, ' now buckle down and toe the line, for everyone's sake'...

Reluctantly, he did...
« Last Edit: May 11, 2016, 09:32:AM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: What makes Bamber innocent?
« Reply #702 on: May 11, 2016, 09:38:AM »
Privately, many of those present resented being told what they could include in their notes, and what they couldn't. But when Adams later recited to them the gist of what senior officers had spoken to him about when he had been taken to one side. Everyone of them were 'happy to go along with it', if it helped 'him' dodge a disciplinary charge...
« Last Edit: May 11, 2016, 01:21:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: What makes Bamber innocent?
« Reply #703 on: May 11, 2016, 01:27:PM »
Adams wasn't to blame...

Officers who were present inside the farmhouse ' let him down'...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: What makes Bamber innocent?
« Reply #704 on: May 11, 2016, 01:33:PM »
Adams wasn't to blame...

Officers who were present inside the farmhouse ' let him down'...

But, if they let 'him' down, he was 'not' responsible, since, at 'all' times he was in the company of Harris, Gibbons, Montgomery, and others...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...