Author Topic: What makes Bamber innocent?  (Read 348295 times)

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Offline lookout

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Re: What makes Bamber innocent?
« Reply #180 on: April 26, 2016, 02:34:PM »
 I would have estimated the time of Neville's death being between 03.45 and 04.00.
Would you have said that Sheila had died before that time or after ?

Based on the appx time of RM being around 6hrs.

Offline Jane

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Re: What makes Bamber innocent?
« Reply #181 on: April 26, 2016, 03:05:PM »




John,so far as I understand,no attempt was ever made to establish any times of death,which if it had been done according to " the book " would then have possibly saved even a trial.


According to exploreforensics.co.uk there are three methods of establishing TOD.

1. Physiological TOD- the point at which the body'd vital organs cease to function.

2. Estimated TOD- Best guess on available information.

3. Legal TOD- Time at which body was found and pronounced dead.

Going by the above, it appears to me that the GP called to attend the scene MAY have been much maligned. He'd have been unable to establish 1 because he didn't have the availability of 2 therefore the best he could have given was 3. It was up to either the pathologist or coroner to find more information.

Offline lookout

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Re: What makes Bamber innocent?
« Reply #182 on: April 26, 2016, 03:20:PM »
Stages of RM will also give an indication of TOD.

Offline mike tesko

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Re: What makes Bamber innocent?
« Reply #183 on: April 26, 2016, 05:30:PM »
Conveniently you believe the police when it suits and call them liars and conspirators when it doesn't.  :)

How astute of you to finally realise when a cop is telling the truth, or the cop is telling a lie. Of course I'm not going to call a truthful cop a liar, but I will shout it from the rooftops when anyone of them lies, or fabricates evidence. And, that's what they did in this case, and many of them lie and fabricate evidence in a lot of other cases. At Hillsboro' it was more than one bad cop, and they took it upon themselves to 'tamper' with 116 cop statements. Same tactic in the Bamber case, somebody 'tampered' with PS Woodcocks witness statement, to deliberately conceal the truth regarding what really happened to Sheila downstairs in the kitchen. You are as bad as the corrupt cops that are responsible for killing Sheila, upstairs, not downstairs. We are going through a similar period in this case, that the Hillsboro' families have been going through until today's verdict. Everyone who it affected, and everyone who cared about the wrong doings of the police in that case, all knew 27 years ago that the 96 were unlawfully killed. It's the same scenario now, only in the Bamber  case, everybody knows that the police operation inside that farmhouse went wrong. It went wrong in such a dramatic way, that it impacted upon the 'body count downstairs' and 'upstairs'. Cops found two bodies downstairs, its clearly documented, no amount of lying or fabricating any evidence can alter that fact. PC Collins explanation does not even fit the facts, its pure and utter bullshit what that cop has come out with. The matter is not helped because of people like you, who try to make the Collins explanation fit. No matter what he says, or what you might think, the truth is, the truth was that Sheila was downstairs. Just so as to hit the nail on the head, so to speak, and knock you back down into your hole, the female body, was reported after the report of the male body downstairs in the kitchen. There is no radio message which mentions the sighting of a female body before mention was made of the dead male body. Collins explanation is hogwash, all he's done, is what cops did at Hillsboro' did, he has tried to make up an excuse for the discrepancy in the body count downstairs. He has tried to revert the body count downstairs to one, when it clearly is two. They tried this kind of approach at Hillsboro' and it came unstuck 27 years after the event. The same approach exists in the Bamber case, the evidence has been tampered with, it has been fabricated, and falsified. In PC Collins haste to 'doctor' the body count downstairs in the kitchen by turning two bodies which were there into one body, the baffoon didn't even have the foresight to amend the body count upstairs, where in accordance with the contents of the police message logs, only three bodidies were found (not four). Cops were shooting each other in the foot by declaring that the bodies of a male and a female had been found downstairs, one of these deaths being a murder, the other, a suicide. Yet, based upon the cop witness statement accounts, June Bambers body was the second body to have been found, and you would be hard pushed to describe her death, as a suicide (not even you could get away with trying to argue that). No, Sheila's body was the third body in the grand scheme of discovery, not the second one. So here again, is this common feature at each and every step of the police investigation where nothing sits right. Leave me to know the truth, and you carry on believing the nonsense that corrupted cops have been feeding everyone ever since September 1985, onward...
« Last Edit: April 26, 2016, 05:36:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

John

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Re: What makes Bamber innocent?
« Reply #184 on: April 26, 2016, 07:15:PM »
Great logic by any standards comparing Hillsboro with the Bamber case.  The biggest impediment to your conspiracy claim is the fact that the police initially went with Bambers story.  Once that began to unravel then the true modus operandi was revealed so I'm afraid your conspiarcy theory is utter hogwash.  But then what's new?
« Last Edit: April 26, 2016, 07:20:PM by John »

John

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Re: What makes Bamber innocent?
« Reply #185 on: April 26, 2016, 07:21:PM »
Stages of RM will also give an indication of TOD.

To a certain extent it will give a vague indication but there are just so many variables that a pathologist would be hard pressed to state time of death to the nearest three hours.

Establishing time of death after several hours is always a bit of a guessing game.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2016, 07:35:PM by John »

Offline lookout

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Re: What makes Bamber innocent?
« Reply #186 on: April 26, 2016, 07:46:PM »
To a certain extent it will give a vague indication but there are just so many variables that a pathologist would be hard pressed to state time of death to the nearest three hours.

Establishing time of death after several hours is always a bit of a guessing game.





Compared to Neville,did Sheila appear to have died at the same time as he ?

Offline Reader

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Re: What makes Bamber innocent?
« Reply #187 on: April 27, 2016, 06:05:PM »
(e) . . . So, if anything got from his cottage at Head Street, Goldhanger, to the farmhouse, faster than the occupants of CA05 did. But at trial prosecution presented the argument that J had been taking his time to get to the farm because the cops overtook him.
Jeremy was well ahead of car CA05 because that car came all the way from Chelmsford. The jury would probably have dismissed any suggestion that Jeremy dawdled, as all the police officers in CA07 put 30 mph in their statements regarding Jeremy's speed.

(j) PC Mercer's police dog failed to detect a presence of firearm discharge residue upon J or his clothing . . . when PC Mercers dog was brought to 'check him out'
No evidence was presented that the dog was used to 'check him out'.

(m) activation of Special Branch attack alarm from farmhouse at 3.29am
There's no proof that any call occurred at exactly that time, or even that such an alarm was installed at the time.

(p) The phone suddenly became 'engaged' when the operator was checking the line for cops
There is no evidence that justifies that assertion.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2016, 06:31:PM by Reader »

Offline Reader

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Re: What makes Bamber innocent?
« Reply #188 on: April 27, 2016, 06:59:PM »
. . . whist the schoolmasters pontificated on history and calculus, . . .
Jeremy wasn't taught calculus at his public school.

Offline Reader

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Re: What makes Bamber innocent?
« Reply #189 on: April 27, 2016, 07:12:PM »
J knew, and the cop at Chelmsford who J had been speaking to on the phone knew, that the distance between where J would be leaving to go to the farm, was a vastly shorter distance than the distance the cops sent by the cop on the phone would have to travel, from Chelmsford to the farmhouse.
According to Pc West, he told Jeremy that the police were on their way from Witham. There is no indication that Jeremy disputed that at any early stage.

Offline Reader

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Re: What makes Bamber innocent?
« Reply #190 on: April 27, 2016, 07:29:PM »
In my estimation, based on the time of his call (3.36am) to cops and its duration, he would have left Head Street at around 3.45am, and he arrived in Pages Lane at precisely 3.52am.
It doesn't make sense to include 'exactly' in an estimation. There is no precise time established for when Jeremy arrived at where the police had parked in Pages Lane. Bonnett's log gives 03:48 as the time of arrival of CA07 at where it parked near WHF. That's about all there is to go on that seems to have been recorded at the time, as distinct from later in police statements.

Offline lebaleb

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Re: What makes Bamber innocent?
« Reply #191 on: April 27, 2016, 07:33:PM »
To a certain extent it will give a vague indication but there are just so many variables that a pathologist would be hard pressed to state time of death to the nearest three hours.

Establishing time of death after several hours is always a bit of a guessing game.

 A comparison could have been made between the amount of RM in Junes body and Sheila. The ambient temperature would be the same. Judging by the flexibility in Sheila's arm I would guess she hadn't been dead that long.

Offline mike tesko

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Re: What makes Bamber innocent?
« Reply #192 on: April 27, 2016, 07:46:PM »
According to Pc West, he told Jeremy that the police were on their way from Witham. There is no indication that Jeremy disputed that at any early stage.

It depends at what time of J's call to PC West, that West told J that the cops from Witham were on their way to the incident, since if J's call to the cop at Chelmsford did not commence until 3.36am, which was the time PC West recorded as the 'start' of J's call to him, and West did not mention to J anything about the cops from having left Witham until near the end of J's 9 minute or so, call to him, then cops from WWitam were already well on their way to the scene and had been from as early as 3.35am. This is interesting, because J did not leave his cottage until around 3.45am, and by that stage the cops from Witham had already been 10 minutes into their journey. Within 3 minutes, those same cops were arriving in Pages Lane at 3.48am. At some point during those last 3 minutes the Witham cops had overtaken J's astra at a particular spot en route to the incident. J arrived in Pages Lane four minutes behind the Witham Cops (3.52am), which adequately accounts for why the Witham cops thought he had been taking his time to get to the scene. However, PC West had forewarned J not to approach the farmhouse before the cops ( in whichever disguise) arrived there, so nobody can legitimately allege that J had been slow timing in his journey from his cottage to the farmhouse because he must have been the killer. J had a legitimate reason for not wanting to get to the farmhouse too quick. This was because PC West had told J not to do so. This suggests to someone like me, that PC West knew something more, than J had ended up 'telling him' during his 3.36am call. The bottom line is that the occupants of CA07 were deployed to 'this' incident 'before' J made his call to PC West, not afterward...
« Last Edit: April 27, 2016, 07:49:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: What makes Bamber innocent?
« Reply #193 on: April 27, 2016, 07:53:PM »
It doesn't make sense to include 'exactly' in an estimation. There is no precise time established for when Jeremy arrived at where the police had parked in Pages Lane. Bonnett's log gives 03:48 as the time of arrival of CA07 at where it parked near WHF. That's about all there is to go on that seems to have been recorded at the time, as distinct from later in police statements.

The occupants of CA07 estimated that J arrived in Pages lane driving his astra 3 or 4 minutes after they themselves had arrived there. This places J's arrival there in Pages Lane, between 3.51 and 3.52am...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: What makes Bamber innocent?
« Reply #194 on: April 27, 2016, 07:59:PM »
If the timing of J's call to PC West had occurred at 3.26am, the occupants of CA07 could not possibly have left Witham  before Such a call. They would have left afterwards, and the other occupants of CA05 could not possibly have been the vehicle which was first deployed to the scene as a result of J's call to West, CA05 occupants would have been the second vehicle deployed to the incident, which is why it is important to get the timing of events right...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...